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0 pointsalisonatwork3y ago0 comments

A key point here is that Uber didn't just disrupt taxi cartels, it also undermined public transport services. In places like Miami it even became a sanctioned alternative to bus routes that were cut. To me this is the true long term damage of their VC-funded predatory pricing model.

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8 comments · 2 top-level

indymike3y ago· 5 in thread

USA centric answer here: In flyover country, in most cities ride share has been life changing for people that would be stuck using overpriced local taxis (in smaller 80K-150K person cities taxi rates are confiscatory and service is often VERY limited) or terrible public transportation. Terrible meaning, a $2 bus ride that takes three and a half hours (of which 2 hours is sitting in the elemets) out of their day vs. ride share taking 10 minutes and $15.

Honestly, I'm not sure where the idea came from that outside some of the largest cities, public transport or taxis even were viable options. Now there's uber/lyft everywhere, because there's always someone with a car who would like to make some money.

bsder3y ago

> USA centric answer here: In flyover country, in most cities ride share has been life changing for people that would be stuck using overpriced local taxis (in smaller 80K-150K person cities taxi rates are confiscatory and service is often VERY limited) or terrible public transportation.

And if Uber/Lyft had confined themselves to delivering reliable transport at a reasonable price in Indianapolis, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, etc. people would be singing their praises.

But they didn't. Because those places weren't just unprofitable but were wildly unprofitable.

Which is stupid because I suspect being a reliable broker between driver and client could still be profitable. Having someone put in "I need to go from A to B at time X." and having a pool of drivers who can go "I'm going to B anyway, so why don't I adjust my time and make some money for doing so." would be a good thing in "flyover" country.

However, it won't be venture capital profitable. And that's really the crux of the problem here.

indymike3y ago

> But they didn't. Because those places weren't just unprofitable but were wildly unprofitable.

Uber as a company is "wildly unprofitable" across the board. I cracked open Uber's 2021 annual report, and I'm not sure they are profitable anywhere. Their revenue model really appears to support the notion they are simply displacing taxi operators, "23% of mobility bookings came from 5 cities..." and listed only NYC and Chicago in the US.It went on to say that 11% of mobility bookings came from airports (and that revenue stream was under attack from the taxi industry).

> However, it won't be venture capital profitable.

I've never had a VC ask for profits. Only growth where revenue and expenses would show we could trim the sails and break even in a pinch. Since Uber is publicly traded, I suspect they are going to have to do better than an annual report that basically projects profitability like I do winning the lottery.

alisonatworkOP3y ago

The idea comes from many other countries where 80k-150k cities have public transport services that don't require people to spend 2 hours sitting in the elements waiting for a bus.

kelnos3y ago

That's great, but how does that justify Uber's poor behavior in places like Miami?

indymike3y ago

Not even trying to justify it.

rawling3y ago· 1 in thread

> In places like Miami it even became a sanctioned alternative to bus routes that were cut.

As in... government justified cutting bus services by saying Uber was a viable alternative?

alisonatworkOP3y ago

Technically, yes. For a while they provided vouchers to reimburse riders for using Uber instead of the public bus system.[0] Now those particular night bus routes have returned to service, but others have been reduced or canceled. This has been happening for the past 10 years or so all over the US.[1] It's not clear if Uber is the primary culprit, but it certainly doesn't help.[2]

[0] https://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article24182271...

[1] https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/03/13/upshot/myster...

[2] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S096585642...

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8 comments · 2 top-level

indymike3y ago· 5 in thread

bsder3y ago

And if Uber/Lyft had confined themselves to delivering reliable transport at a reasonable price in Indianapolis, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, etc. people would be singing their praises.

But they didn't. Because those places weren't just unprofitable but were wildly unprofitable.

However, it won't be venture capital profitable. And that's really the crux of the problem here.

indymike3y ago

> But they didn't. Because those places weren't just unprofitable but were wildly unprofitable.

> However, it won't be venture capital profitable.

alisonatworkOP3y ago

The idea comes from many other countries where 80k-150k cities have public transport services that don't require people to spend 2 hours sitting in the elements waiting for a bus.

kelnos3y ago

That's great, but how does that justify Uber's poor behavior in places like Miami?

indymike3y ago

Not even trying to justify it.

rawling3y ago· 1 in thread

> In places like Miami it even became a sanctioned alternative to bus routes that were cut.

As in... government justified cutting bus services by saying Uber was a viable alternative?

alisonatworkOP3y ago

[0] https://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article24182271...

[1] https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/03/13/upshot/myster...

[2] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S096585642...

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