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0 pointsJose_GD14y ago0 comments

Daniel, why are you saying Uncle Bob is a bit critical of the SC movement? In links 4 and 5 he express quite the contrary, he's defending firmly his belief in craftsmanship.

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DanielRibeiro14y ago

At the end of the first video(here[1]) he says:

There is a danger here of a rift: what we don't want is separate movements... What we want is a reunification. What we really want is a return to the values that started this whole thing

Which is a criticism. Granted, it is a harder critic on the Agile movement than on the Software Craftsmanship (it essentially means that Agile forgot the Software Craftsmanship along the way, and it needs it back).

Which seems to me like a bit of a dated discussion, as those pushing Agile[2,3,4] to the next Level are well aware of this issue, and are not falling pray to it.

[1] http://cleancoder.posterous.com/stub6-restoring-the-trust

[2] http://yfrog.com/h3qqxdij

[3] http://www.slideshare.net/HackerChick/lean-startup-how-devel...

[4] http://agile.dzone.com/news/10-years-later-what%E2%80%99s-ne...

Jose_GDOP14y ago

Daniel, what he's criticizing is not Agile as a movement, rather a group of people who bastardized Agile, giving lip service to its values. For example the people who made lucrative business with Scrum certifications leaving professionalism behind.

DanielRibeiro14y ago

Yes, but he is also saying that we don't need two movements. Software Craftsmanship is there in the Manifesto. But the industry around Agile is oblivious to it. This is his voice.

My opinion is that even though he is right, the second movement is great to make people reflect and realize that we Craftsmanship is an integral part of Agile.

I am not saying that his critique is bad: we are only here because of lack of critiques, and a thoughtful application of Agile[1]

[1] http://agilefocus.com/2011/02/21/agiles-second-chasm-and-how...

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DanielRibeiro14y ago

At the end of the first video(here[1]) he says:

There is a danger here of a rift: what we don't want is separate movements... What we want is a reunification. What we really want is a return to the values that started this whole thing

Which seems to me like a bit of a dated discussion, as those pushing Agile[2,3,4] to the next Level are well aware of this issue, and are not falling pray to it.

[1] http://cleancoder.posterous.com/stub6-restoring-the-trust

[2] http://yfrog.com/h3qqxdij

[3] http://www.slideshare.net/HackerChick/lean-startup-how-devel...

[4] http://agile.dzone.com/news/10-years-later-what%E2%80%99s-ne...

Jose_GDOP14y ago

DanielRibeiro14y ago

Yes, but he is also saying that we don't need two movements. Software Craftsmanship is there in the Manifesto. But the industry around Agile is oblivious to it. This is his voice.

My opinion is that even though he is right, the second movement is great to make people reflect and realize that we Craftsmanship is an integral part of Agile.

I am not saying that his critique is bad: we are only here because of lack of critiques, and a thoughtful application of Agile[1]

[1] http://agilefocus.com/2011/02/21/agiles-second-chasm-and-how...

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