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0 pointsjjice3y ago0 comments

> Sounds like a tax for stupidity and laziness

I pay a barber to cut my hair. Sure, I could learn how to cut my own hair, but there's a good chance I'll spend a lot of time and still mess it up.

I pay a mechanic to fix my car for serious repair. Sure, I could learn how to replace a transmission, but there's a good chance I'll spend a lot of time and still mess it up.

If these (and the endless examples of paying professionals) are a tax for stupidity and laziness, then everyone is lazy and stupid. If you're not a software company, there's a good chance it's worth it to save the time to pay someone to set it up for you. Also, if Joe's Fish Market wants a POS system and needs a server for it and he decides to set it up himself, if he gets it up and running, what are the chances it'll stay up to day and not have a firewall issue? Probably pretty low compared to if a professional did it.

Joe wants to focus on selling fish. That's where he's a pro. I don't know anything about fish, but I could set up a server for him. We all have our own skills, and it's often worth while to leverage other people's skills, because they'll do it faster, better, and it will likely end up cheaper after time and security are taken into consideration.

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yobbo3y ago

> I pay a barber to cut my hair.

Meaningless analogy. Here some other meaningless analogies:

Why would anyone ever own a frying pan? Not only do you need to rent a stove, you also need to hire a chef to cook with frying pan, you need a station with chefs that prep ingredients and so on. Just go to a restaurant.

You pay a mechanic to fix your car? Why would anyone ever own a car when you can rent a car whenever you need one.

You pay a barber to cut your hair? Why not just wear a wig!

And so on ...

filmgirlcw3y ago

I mean, people do most of those things (the wig analogy is a bit off but people do get weeves and extensions) — not everyone, but I don’t cook, as an example. I own a frying pan, but I don’t know the last time I’ve ever used it. As a general rule, I don’t cook.

And many, many people don’t own a car, not because they can’t afford one but because it makes more sense to rent one or hire a car service when needed. Frankly, my dream scenario is to have enough money to hire a personal driver who is on-demand and at the ready when I need to go out and do things. For plenty of people, that’s anathema. But for me, I don’t like driving (or cooking) and I’d much rather pay someone to do it for me.

The same is true for software. I like tinkering with a lot of my own software, but if I was building my own business, I sure as shit would rather pay for an established company to handle some of the grunt work, rather than hiring dedicated teams that in aggregate would cost a lot of money.

The rise of SaaS and PaaS isn’t just laziness. It’s a recognition that for a lot of people, even developers, we’d rather entrust a lot of the operations and IT work to someone else.

yobbo3y ago

> The rise of SaaS and PaaS isn’t just laziness.

My point is that none of the analogies are arguments for (or against) SaaS, or in this case "brand name" enterprise software.

Whenever any of these comically banal analogies are brought out to sell something, the intention always seems to be to suspend critical thinking.

There exists many legitimate arguments, for many things. They never begin with "why would anyone need a frying pan".

jnovek3y ago

I lease a car every four years in part so that I don’t have to deal with the inevitable car repairs that come after that point.

For some — but not all — people, that’s a preferable option.

For some — but not all — companies, enterprise tech is a preferable option.

yencabulator3y ago

I typically own cars 4-10 years old. I'm currently still happy with a 2008 model that has had exactly one non-maintenance, non-upgrade, cost -- which wouldn't even have prevented using it in any way, I just like the emissions system to be as eco-friendly as it can.

"Inevitable repairs after 4 years" is just a delusion, and silly.

Might I suggest you be honest with yourself and say you like the new car feel? Maybe even like it as a status symbol? Don't want to think about what tires to buy to replace worn-out ones?

I'm the opposite. I like having a scuffed-up car (or in this case, jeep), with dogs climbing all over the seats and sand everywhere from going off road. I'd rather use the thing and have fun on the trip.

Even if I drove my jeep off a cliff, called it a total loss, and got nothing back from insurance, I'd lose less money than you lost in 3 years of leasing -- and I've already had the thing longer than that.

jnovek3y ago

“Might I suggest you be honest with yourself and say you like the new car feel? Maybe even like it as a status symbol? Don't want to think about what tires to buy to replace worn-out ones?”

Dead wrong.

I lease the cheapest car that is practical for my situation. I consider cars completely utilitarian tools. I get no joy from them, I hate driving and take public transit whenever I can.

I had very little money until I was in my late 20s when my career prospects finally took off. Cheap cars that failed frequently were a constant source of anxiety because I couldn’t get far enough ahead to maintain savings. When my career improved and I could afford small luxuries, I spent the money on leasing because I wanted to avoid the anxiety of cars breaking down. It was a gift to myself to lower my stress level.

EDIT: also, in northern Minnesota where the winters are hard and everything is covered in salt, car trouble DOES start after 4 years. Sometimes before.

rconti3y ago

Wow, you argued with the parent about their own priorities, and then proved their point anyway.

Yes, they don't want to think about what tires to buy. Or whether it needs to be fixed or not. The fact that repairs are not in inevitability but a possibility is part of the point.

The parent is making the point that they're rather throw money at the problem and not have to think about it, not that they've precisely run the numbers on all of the possibilities and decided their outcome is the most cost-effective.

skinnymuch3y ago

Not thinking about the tires is exactly the point. You said it yourself. What are you arguing for then?

The OP prob doesn’t want to enjoy the car. It’s a car. I don’t care about cars either. I don’t enjoy them as much as use them for their purpose of transportation.

vel0city3y ago

Why would you pay for municipal water supply? Just laziness. Put a well in instead and maintain it.

And when putting in the well, why would you pay someone else to dig it for you? Just laziness. Dig it yourself!

And then when digging the well, why would you rent the drill? Just laziness, outsourcing the maintenance and ownership costs to someone else.

And then why bother buying the drill at some market where they're then manufacturing the drill for you? Pure laziness. Just make the drill yourself!

Or maybe, you just go with a trusted service instead of learning how to manufacture digging equipment when all you really want is running water.

teh643y ago

For the first two, there are definitely people how live like that, because of surprise tech companies like Uber making it possible.

Also literally everyone and every company relies on someone else to provide some services or hardware to enable people to do their job and live. Even this conversation could not even happen without other people making sure internet connections are kept stable. This whole "one person is an island" ideology is not something a lot of people subscribe to.

Some companies don't want to spend time doing software things that are not core to their business, so they pay other companies which sometimes do it better. Most definitely not always, but for some companies it would still be better than some in-house hodgepodge.

scarface743y ago

Actually, I seriously have been thinking about not owning a car ever again. We are the typical two car family. But I went a year without a car and I still go weeks on end without a car when my son needs it.

Uber is actually cheaper for me than a car + insurance + maintenance. I work from home. I’m going to give my car to my son when we move.

When I need to see my parents 200 miles away, I can hop on a small plane for $300 round trip and just work from there for a week.

depaya3y ago

There are other good replies to you, but one other thing I'll add: for a lot of companies it is much much easier to pay a steady $xxx/month than it is to pay a large amount up front and budget for unknown variable costs down the road.

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yobbo3y ago

> I pay a barber to cut my hair.

Meaningless analogy. Here some other meaningless analogies:

You pay a mechanic to fix your car? Why would anyone ever own a car when you can rent a car whenever you need one.

You pay a barber to cut your hair? Why not just wear a wig!

And so on ...

filmgirlcw3y ago

The rise of SaaS and PaaS isn’t just laziness. It’s a recognition that for a lot of people, even developers, we’d rather entrust a lot of the operations and IT work to someone else.

yobbo3y ago

> The rise of SaaS and PaaS isn’t just laziness.

My point is that none of the analogies are arguments for (or against) SaaS, or in this case "brand name" enterprise software.

Whenever any of these comically banal analogies are brought out to sell something, the intention always seems to be to suspend critical thinking.

There exists many legitimate arguments, for many things. They never begin with "why would anyone need a frying pan".

jnovek3y ago

I lease a car every four years in part so that I don’t have to deal with the inevitable car repairs that come after that point.

For some — but not all — people, that’s a preferable option.

For some — but not all — companies, enterprise tech is a preferable option.

yencabulator3y ago

"Inevitable repairs after 4 years" is just a delusion, and silly.

Might I suggest you be honest with yourself and say you like the new car feel? Maybe even like it as a status symbol? Don't want to think about what tires to buy to replace worn-out ones?

jnovek3y ago

“Might I suggest you be honest with yourself and say you like the new car feel? Maybe even like it as a status symbol? Don't want to think about what tires to buy to replace worn-out ones?”

Dead wrong.

I lease the cheapest car that is practical for my situation. I consider cars completely utilitarian tools. I get no joy from them, I hate driving and take public transit whenever I can.

EDIT: also, in northern Minnesota where the winters are hard and everything is covered in salt, car trouble DOES start after 4 years. Sometimes before.

rconti3y ago

Wow, you argued with the parent about their own priorities, and then proved their point anyway.

Yes, they don't want to think about what tires to buy. Or whether it needs to be fixed or not. The fact that repairs are not in inevitability but a possibility is part of the point.

skinnymuch3y ago

Not thinking about the tires is exactly the point. You said it yourself. What are you arguing for then?

The OP prob doesn’t want to enjoy the car. It’s a car. I don’t care about cars either. I don’t enjoy them as much as use them for their purpose of transportation.

vel0city3y ago

Why would you pay for municipal water supply? Just laziness. Put a well in instead and maintain it.

And when putting in the well, why would you pay someone else to dig it for you? Just laziness. Dig it yourself!

And then when digging the well, why would you rent the drill? Just laziness, outsourcing the maintenance and ownership costs to someone else.

And then why bother buying the drill at some market where they're then manufacturing the drill for you? Pure laziness. Just make the drill yourself!

Or maybe, you just go with a trusted service instead of learning how to manufacture digging equipment when all you really want is running water.

teh643y ago

For the first two, there are definitely people how live like that, because of surprise tech companies like Uber making it possible.

scarface743y ago

Uber is actually cheaper for me than a car + insurance + maintenance. I work from home. I’m going to give my car to my son when we move.

When I need to see my parents 200 miles away, I can hop on a small plane for $300 round trip and just work from there for a week.

depaya3y ago

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse