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0 pointsorlp4y ago0 comments

Commercial mass-produced tomatoes, bananas and other climacteric fruit are picked heavily unripe, shipped in this more durable state, and in the destination country are rapidly artificially ripened in ethylene gas chambers. The same commercial mass-produced fruits and vegetables also have been cultivated for decades for resistance against disease, size, and shelf life. Taste is often only secondary to those.

On one hand it allows year-round affordable fruit and vegetables to lie in our stores. On the other hand it means we are now stuck buying tasteless bags of water.

It is an erosion of the 'middle class' of products that economies of scale across all products seem to cause. There are only two kinds of product left: the small-scale artisanal extremely pricy product (e.g. farmer's market), and the mass-produced MBA-optimized to death commercial product. Any product that becomes 'too successful' and reaches economies of scale falls victim to this and is subsequently repeatedly penny-pinched until nothing of value is left.

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throw0101a4y ago

> Commercial mass-produced tomatoes, bananas and other climacteric fruit are picked heavily unripe […]

I've heard it said that frozen vegetables are often "fresher" than non-frozen: they're picked when they're actually ripe, and flash frozen a short distance from the farm. They can then be moved about and stored with much less fuss as long as they're kept cold.

Some trade-offs:

> Certain nutrients are also lost during the blanching process. In fact, the greatest loss of nutrients occurs at this time.

> Blanching takes place prior to freezing, and involves placing the produce in boiling water for a short time — usually a few minutes.

> This kills any harmful bacteria and prevents the loss of flavor, color and texture. Yet it also results in the loss of water-soluble nutrients, such as B-vitamins and vitamin C.

* https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/fresh-vs-frozen-fruit-a...

Seems to be an area of active research.

jason-phillips4y ago

> There are only two kinds of product left: the small-scale artisanal extremely pricy product (e.g. farmer's market), and the mass-produced MBA-optimized to death commercial product.

I discovered this phenomenon myself over the past decade, seeing the race to the bottom in automation, while at the same watching artisinal cottage industries sprout in East Austin in response.

Whether it was nitrogenated cold-brew coffee in kegs, handmade denim jeans, handmade cheeses and charcuterie, there was definitely a drive to produce high-quality, handmade items locally, seemingly in response to tasteless, soulless products begat by automation. I figured that is what the future held, two classes of product, one rather expensive and high quality, made by hand, and the other symbolized by a soulless $5 Garden Center plastic chair.

The reason why a market exists for those artisinal handmade products, I reckon, is because people at some level still crave the authenticity evidenced by something made by skilled craftspeople.

boringg4y ago

That or that people can discern quality and have an appreciation for quality.

The problem with quality is it doesn’t scale well which is at odds with VC funding model (ie the backbone to SV business model)

sizzle4y ago

I have a local CSA organic veggie box dropped at my door picked from local farms. It is delicious and no pesticides, highly recommended anyone who can afford it to try.

You can search for CSA companies in your area here: https://www.localharvest.org

dr_dshiv4y ago

Random: ethylene is psychoactive. Haven’t tried it. But, some evidence that it was the abiogenic gas at the temple of Apollo at Delphi:

Foster, J., & Lehoux, D. (2007). The Delphic oracle and the ethylene-intoxication hypothesis. Clinical Toxicology, 45(1), 85-89.

yesenadam4y ago

> The Delphic oracle and the ethylene-intoxication hypothesis

Thanks, interesting read. The paper seems rather against the hypothesis, to say the least - it's a demolition.

"this hypothesis is implausible since it is based on problematic scientific and textual evidence, as well as a fallacious argument. ...the evidence did not support the conclusion. ... if it was not the positivist bent of the argument that made it so widely attractive, then how did such an implausible argument get such wide press?"

I don't want to give long quotes, but it says "developing the explanatory hypothesis required the combined efforts of an archeologist, a geologist, a chemist, and a toxicologist", but they offered a pathetically flimsy argument, which only seemed convincing due to the appearance of its scientific trappings, appeals to the glamour of the "interdisciplinary" and of explaining ancient mysteries with Science. It mostly looks at why it convinced anyone, and became widely known, although extremely low quality work.

paper PDF: https://sci-hub.se/10.1080/15563650601120800

dr_dshiv4y ago

Quite so. Here’s a rather well written reply: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/155636507014778...

It’s funny that in neither paper was there ever an attempt to just try the stuff and, you know, attempt mantic divination. What has science come to?

giantg24y ago

Welcome have some types of produce that is stored for long periods of time and lose nutrients during storage. For example, apples that you buy in the store tend to me more than a year old.

specialist4y ago

Yes and:

> mass-produced MBA-optimized to death

Plus counterfeits, knockoffs, gray-market, etc. eg Fake Italian olive oil.

I don't know what to call this category, or their purveyors. Inauthentic? Market parasites? The eBay / Amazon (unregulated markets) problem?

jjoonathan4y ago

"The 80/20 version."

There are times when I'm willing to pay 5x to get something 20% better. Not all the time, though. Moralizing the choice feels like a sales gimmick.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse

0 comments

throw0101a4y ago

> Commercial mass-produced tomatoes, bananas and other climacteric fruit are picked heavily unripe […]

Some trade-offs:

> Certain nutrients are also lost during the blanching process. In fact, the greatest loss of nutrients occurs at this time.

> Blanching takes place prior to freezing, and involves placing the produce in boiling water for a short time — usually a few minutes.

> This kills any harmful bacteria and prevents the loss of flavor, color and texture. Yet it also results in the loss of water-soluble nutrients, such as B-vitamins and vitamin C.

* https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/fresh-vs-frozen-fruit-a...

Seems to be an area of active research.

jason-phillips4y ago

> There are only two kinds of product left: the small-scale artisanal extremely pricy product (e.g. farmer's market), and the mass-produced MBA-optimized to death commercial product.

I discovered this phenomenon myself over the past decade, seeing the race to the bottom in automation, while at the same watching artisinal cottage industries sprout in East Austin in response.

The reason why a market exists for those artisinal handmade products, I reckon, is because people at some level still crave the authenticity evidenced by something made by skilled craftspeople.

boringg4y ago

That or that people can discern quality and have an appreciation for quality.

The problem with quality is it doesn’t scale well which is at odds with VC funding model (ie the backbone to SV business model)

sizzle4y ago

I have a local CSA organic veggie box dropped at my door picked from local farms. It is delicious and no pesticides, highly recommended anyone who can afford it to try.

You can search for CSA companies in your area here: https://www.localharvest.org

dr_dshiv4y ago

Random: ethylene is psychoactive. Haven’t tried it. But, some evidence that it was the abiogenic gas at the temple of Apollo at Delphi:

Foster, J., & Lehoux, D. (2007). The Delphic oracle and the ethylene-intoxication hypothesis. Clinical Toxicology, 45(1), 85-89.

yesenadam4y ago

> The Delphic oracle and the ethylene-intoxication hypothesis

Thanks, interesting read. The paper seems rather against the hypothesis, to say the least - it's a demolition.

paper PDF: https://sci-hub.se/10.1080/15563650601120800

dr_dshiv4y ago

Quite so. Here’s a rather well written reply: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/155636507014778...

It’s funny that in neither paper was there ever an attempt to just try the stuff and, you know, attempt mantic divination. What has science come to?

giantg24y ago

Welcome have some types of produce that is stored for long periods of time and lose nutrients during storage. For example, apples that you buy in the store tend to me more than a year old.

specialist4y ago

Yes and:

> mass-produced MBA-optimized to death

Plus counterfeits, knockoffs, gray-market, etc. eg Fake Italian olive oil.

I don't know what to call this category, or their purveyors. Inauthentic? Market parasites? The eBay / Amazon (unregulated markets) problem?

jjoonathan4y ago

"The 80/20 version."

There are times when I'm willing to pay 5x to get something 20% better. Not all the time, though. Moralizing the choice feels like a sales gimmick.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse