undefined | Better HN

0 pointsdrzaiusapelord14y ago0 comments

Naww, he's just a zealot. The history of religion is the history of zealotry, as well as oppression and violence. Funny how you think he must be an atheist, when he fits the religious zealot profile to a 't.' Phelps fits the character of so many religious leaders who have millions of followers and millions of dollars. Phelps' big issue is that he's poor at monetizing his crazy, unlike other successful bigots like Falwell and Graham.

I'm sick of the conspiracy theories that he must be some kind of secret agent. Bigotry and hatred is typical in religion, especially for homosexuals. Theists need to call him an atheist or a con man to make them feel better about being theists and following the philosophy of 1st century madmen.

0 comments

ellyagg14y ago

As an atheist, I think it's pretty clear from your post that hatred and bigotry is alive and well outside of religion. You know what else is typical in religion, including Buddhism, Christianity, Islam, etc.? Tolerance, love, and generosity. If you don't know religious people who are the epitome of these qualities and find strength to exhibit them from their religion, you are living in a bubble.

giardini14y ago

> "Tolerance, love, and generosity. If you don't know religious people who are the epitome of these qualities and find strength to exhibit them from their religion, you are living in a bubble."

Certainly there are many people of all cultures and religions who are tolerant, loving and generous. But mostly to those of their own culture/religion.

As for living in bubbles, that is _precisely_ the purpose of culture/religion - to enclose the individual with a selected group, keep him/her under control and prevent him/her from interacting with outside groups. Take food taboos as an example - it's difficult to be friends with someone if you can't eat with them.

And while there may be hatred and bigotry outside of religion, it pales compared to what religion has given the world. Of course I consider most "-ism"s to be religions too.

davidhollander14y ago

>hatred and bigotry outside of religion, it pales compared to what religion has given the world.

The 20th century is evidence enough that man is capable of resorting to the worst possible barbarism without invoking deities as justification, plenty of other excuses are readily available. Going by death count, political purges in officially atheist communist nations took the cake... by far. Ethnicity was a distant second behind politics, and religion a distant third.

> Of course I consider most "-ism"s to be religions too.

Communism, solipsism, humanism, socialism, nihilism? If the majority of philosophical and political beliefs, even those with a stated opposition to religion, are now redefined to be religion, then "religious belief" is no longer a subset of "belief", and you've expanded the categorical definition of that word to be useless at anything other than proving yourself correct.

1 more reply

learc8314y ago

Most zealots have a strong conviction, and will do whatever is necessary to further their cause. Sometimes what they deem necessary is shocking to the rest of us.

However, Phelps "ministry" seems to exist, simply to shock. He's like the one dimensional villain who is evil for the sake of being evil.

Since his public persona seems like a fictional character, I assume he is one.

MBlume14y ago

If you're right, it's a pretty deep con he's playing:

www.atheistnexus.org/page/nate-phelps-2009-aa-speech

trigger warning/tl;dr: Phelps family is every bit as horrifically abusive as you'd imagine.

microarchitect14y ago

Some corollary of Poe's law applies here. If some religious guy seems too batshit insane to be true, he's just as likely to be real as he is to be batshit insane.

drzaiusapelordOP14y ago

>He's like the one dimensional villain who is evil for the sake of being evil.

That's how I see the Pope or your typical small town preacher, yet I believe their sincerity. I'm not sure why you get to sit there and decide who is sincere and insincere without any proof. They are Christians, they follow scripture, they have opinions and audience. They're not con men, they are simply misguided and in IMHO evil because its impossible to have a non-evil religion. At the end of the day, believing woo that justifies your biases is evil.

Phelps is just a Christian. Accept it. Move on.

yew14y ago

Given the degree to which Phelps has in fact monetized his craziness, I'm personally inclined to believe that it's at least partly an act. His whole family regularly engages in activities that are specifically calculated to make people angry enough to do something, and then they sue everyone they can get their hands on for as much money as possible.

I don't think he's an atheist, though. I know plenty of Christians who are almost as crazy and definitely not acting. I think he's just a fundamentalist who's smart enough to take advantage of adding a little on the top; a sort of larger-than-life "media personality."

ellyagg14y ago

Wow, I hadn't even read this comment yet. Who is the zealot again? Everyone, EVERYONE, including you, believes uncountable things purely through conditioning, purely through repeated exposure without direct confrontation of the ideas with the conscious mind. There is no evidence suggesting there are any people who believe only things for which they've carefully deliberated; in fact, there is lots of evidence that this is not the case. You believe untold woo this very moment while spewing sanctimonious claptrap.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse

0 comments

ellyagg14y ago

giardini14y ago

> "Tolerance, love, and generosity. If you don't know religious people who are the epitome of these qualities and find strength to exhibit them from their religion, you are living in a bubble."

Certainly there are many people of all cultures and religions who are tolerant, loving and generous. But mostly to those of their own culture/religion.

And while there may be hatred and bigotry outside of religion, it pales compared to what religion has given the world. Of course I consider most "-ism"s to be religions too.

davidhollander14y ago

>hatred and bigotry outside of religion, it pales compared to what religion has given the world.

> Of course I consider most "-ism"s to be religions too.

1 more reply

learc8314y ago

Most zealots have a strong conviction, and will do whatever is necessary to further their cause. Sometimes what they deem necessary is shocking to the rest of us.

However, Phelps "ministry" seems to exist, simply to shock. He's like the one dimensional villain who is evil for the sake of being evil.

Since his public persona seems like a fictional character, I assume he is one.

MBlume14y ago

If you're right, it's a pretty deep con he's playing:

www.atheistnexus.org/page/nate-phelps-2009-aa-speech

trigger warning/tl;dr: Phelps family is every bit as horrifically abusive as you'd imagine.

microarchitect14y ago

Some corollary of Poe's law applies here. If some religious guy seems too batshit insane to be true, he's just as likely to be real as he is to be batshit insane.

drzaiusapelordOP14y ago

>He's like the one dimensional villain who is evil for the sake of being evil.

Phelps is just a Christian. Accept it. Move on.

yew14y ago

ellyagg14y ago

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse