(PS: I'm Ukrainian and just try to be sarcastic about the whole thing which is horrific, be careful and take care) (PS2: considering our attitude towards the situation, we're not even taking this video serious)
Such as: Zelensky is a nazi, the Ukraine war is all CGI, anything related to Hillary or Bill Clinton (yes still), and so on and so forth.
Information dissemination must be similar to fluid dynamics. It just has to be.
It’s simpler and more insidious than that. I’ll use the old Eleanor Roosevelt quote:
"Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people."
Most people are not that intellectual and probably spent most of their life gossiping. They wouldn’t know how to even discuss certain topics if the low hanging fruit of gossip and conspiracy wasn’t available to them to add something in a social interaction.
Take Reddit for example, some of them wouldn’t even know what to say if they couldn’t add that one immediate punch line (followed by sequential punchlines by other people). If you take this away, they will literally have no way of joining the convo.
They won’t be able to come up with an angle, ask a probing question, entertain an alternative perspective, provide analogues or metaphors, they’d simply have no voice. It’s akin to providing these people with ‘what do you think about the weather today?’ as a lifeline in casual social interaction.
The quote seems appropriate for a person that doesn’t want to be talked about.
I get what it’s going for but “only small minds talk about people” feels like it serves political elites very well. Don’t talk about me and my conduct. Talk about the generalised idea of conduct by people who are somewhat like me!
I studied politics at university and learned enough about political ideology to last me a lifetime. But my biggest takeaway from history is that ideology almost always plays a back seat to human beings that want to retain or expand their power. Ideas are pretty malleable around that aim.
That being said, you are absolutely on your own. The hospital struggles, the schools struggle, the roads are awful, and anything remotely related to 'government' is funded just above the point of being dead. And if you do not seem to be 'from here' (read: white, straight, middle- to upper-middle class, or have the right last name) you absolutely will be excluded from most social, religious, and other institutions.
In other words, it's not all puppies and sunshine.
That other 10% is political discussion. Which is a hot garbage pile covered in blatant racism and antisemitism.
If you include reactions, sure. But regular fluid dynamics very much leaves the substance intact. Water flows down a stream and is still water at the end.
Even that has fish shit added.
Heisenberg supposedly said "When I meet God I’m going to ask him about relativity and turbulence. I think he'll only have an answer for the first".
As similar as fluid dynamics are to a functional public education system
The the root cause for that is probably the extreme distrust of the "MSM" that's been cultivated for decades. The ironic thing is many of the rank-and-file of those people think that distrust gives them greater access to the truth, when in reality it just makes them easier to lie to.
I've had some heated discussions with my father over this. He has a disdain for anything reported by main-stream media, that is at least partially warranted. But he overcorrects to this by accepting the reporting by fringe media outlets / decentralized media figures (podcasters, youtubers, etc) without the same critical lens that he would otherwise apply. If someone says something to the tune of: "the MSM won't report on this because <insert reasoning here>, but we will!", he almost always accepts what they say next. It's very frustrating for me since he will say this line as an automatic "I win this argument" trump card on any idea regardless of the independent merits.
This shouldn't be a bold statement, but I feel like some people need this shouted at them: Just because something is reported on by a main stream media outlet doesn't mean it's automatically true. And conversely just because something is reported on by a main stream media outlet doesn't mean it's automatically false either. Alternative media is perfectly capable of presenting misleading, or false information!
Care to elaborate? Intuitively what you're saying sounds plausible, but not why that would be the case.
It makes them easier to control.
government doesn't want you to hear people -> subject matter expert sees -> informs that information is faulty -> minority fight against the tide
Although usually this follows the covid lab grown pattern where the fight against the tide crowd usually treats their info as 100% certain which muddies the water when informed opinions have varying confidence levels.
He's not a Nazi, of course, him being of Jewish ancestry, but it did raise some questions for me when a Russian bomb (that killed about 20 civilians) did its thing in Kyiv very close to a boulevard named after Bandera. Bandera is of course a war criminal and a Nazi collaborator. That thing with a Kyiv boulevard being named after a war criminal and a Nazi collaborator you don't see in the MSM. The bombing took place here [1], you can see the Bandera-named avenue just close by.
[1] https://www.google.com/maps/place/50%C2%B029'19.1%22N+30%C2%...
Does that mean the US, today, generally supports the institution of chattel slavery? No, that's absurd.
Lots of people want those monuments removed and streets renamed, but that's apparently cancel culture. The only country I know of that has actually faced it's rotten past is Germany
But you’d probably protest if someone called you an anti-semite for this alone.
You're doing some interesting mental gymnastics here. Do you think "a Russian bomb doing its thing very close to a boulevard" is in any way evidence of the "mainstream media" hiding the Truth or whatever? Who do you work for? Do you actually believe the Russians are attacking Ukraine because of nazis? Do you believe their invasion and the murder of civilians is warranted?
What questions of any importance or relevance to this war would it possibly raise? Are you suggesting that if Ukraine really was wall-to-wall Nazis that maybe Russia is somehow justified here? Maybe WW2 wasn't quite finished after all? Good grief. Stop stirring the turd for no good reason other than to rile people up.
That is strong evidence that he isn't, but short of proof. A counterexample from California: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Unz
> Zelensky is a nazi
Considering Trump voters have a history of being called Nazi for the affiliation, I don't see it as a stretch to call Zelensky one for the Ukrainian "Azov Battalion." Think of it as the sword cutting both ways.
> the Ukraine war is all CGI
This one I see constantly... folks expect 4K quality LiveLeak material to be streaming out of Ukraine. Truth be told I'm surprised at the relative dearth of material, but there's still enough floating around social media to make this one rather laughable.
> anything related to Hillary or Bill Clinton
Oddly, I haven't heard anything on this one. Though I have seen a meme going around referring to Biden, Romney, Pelosi, and Kerry having "children involved in the UA energy business." This, at least partially false, but with a rooting in the truth... Hunter Biden as well as advisors / associates of the others have all done business in the UA energy sector. I'm still not quite sure how and why Biden's handling of the former UA prosecutor that had an investigation going against Burisma which employed Hunter isn't a larger political scandal.
All in all there does seem an age gap (IME) with your typical Boomer / Fox types spreading the garbage content, folks towards the Millenial side don't.
"Oh of course this is not true... except for maybe this little sliver here..."
That's the thing that gets latched onto and eventually the conspiracy nuts argue the whole thing must be true.
I would speculate that some kinds of corruption are beyond the scandalous and into the range of bipartisan consensus. In the sense that if certain cans of worms were opened, and government bureaucrats educated to treat them as illegal, investigate and prosecute people for them, then it would affect too many key people in both parties and/or covert/intelligence operations abroad.
Having family members serve on boards of directors of things for improving access to politicians seems to be one of those. So is the issue of divesting from one's commercial holdings when assuming an office which creates conflicts of interests. Trump got a total pass by just saying "Oh, I let my sons manage it" - as if that removes the problem at all. But too many house representatives and senators have stocks or other such stakes which they would rather just keep.
[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Tonkin_incident [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayirah_testimony
> Varje meddelande att motsåndet ska uppges är falskt.
(Every message stating that resistance has ceased is false).
No doubt something similar is stated in Ukraine.
https://www.forsvarsmakten.se/siteassets/5-information-och-f...
The continuation of the phrase mentioned later in the same pamphlet is also nice:
SV: Motstånd skall göras ständigt och i alla lägen.
EN: Resistance shall be made constantly and in all situations.
It also mentions the classic "En svensk tiger" (lit. "A Swede stays silent") illustrated by a tiger in the Swedish colors since the word has double meaning in Swedish.
Minor nitpick, the correct translation isn't "resistance has ceased" but "resistance shall cease".
Du har rätt :)
I quoted and translated from memory, then googled for the correct quote.
The current statement is:
> Om Sverige blir angripet av ett annat land kommer vi aldrig att ge upp. Alla uppgifter om att motståndet ska upphöra är falska.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_holdout
Last confirmed holdout in 1974, almost 30 years after ww2 ended for Japan.
I'm not middle-aged, I'm from the Middle Ages.
(Works better in Swedish: Jag är inte medelålders, jag är medeltida.)
By the way, I'm curious about the word "uppges". After running the sentence both through DeepL.com and Google Translate they seem to return the translation "Any message that the resistance should be stated is false" (though DeepL does list "abandoned" and "quit" among many options in the translation result dropdown). Also, after checking out Wiktionary [0]. I see it only lists "to give as a fact; to state" as a translation for the verb.
This is the first time DeepL has failed me in providing a reasonable translation on the first try. Is this usage of "uppges" to mean something analogous to "cease" very rare or old fashioned, and somehow missing from Wiktionary? Would the meaning of that sentence be unambiguous to any native Swede even if they had never seen that message before?
The text is from the 60's and it shows in exactly the type of language used.
This is why we "linguistic prescriptivists" fight our lonely rearguard action: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30712765
> Varje meddelande att motsåndet ska uppges är falskt.
a more direct translation: "Every message that resistence should be given up is false"
> If Sweden is attacked by another country, we will never give up. All information to the effect that resistance is to cease is false.
I love this, as in California the phone directories all had a section about what to do in an earthquake and other emergency. Local knowledge for local situations.
The reason was that in those days the telephone book was the only book you could guarantee would be in every house (the unstated reason was that it was the only thing a government could use to push a message into every house -- even in the US where the phone system was nominally private, the government exerted significant pressure on their operations).
I wonder how many people even knew that section existed, much less consulted it.
The Californian one on earthquakes? No idea. But the Swedish one on war: Pretty much everybody certainly knew of it, and probably most had at least cursorily perused it.
Stay Alert! Trust no one! Keep your laser handy!
(OK, that last one came from somewhere else).
Is this a usage of ska I haven't learned?
Do note however that Swedish is famous for multiple meanings of words.
The verb "ska" (short form of "skola"), has at least 5 meanings.
1. will do <something>: "jag ska bara äta först"
2. (conditionals), something could happen: "om du hade pengar, skulle du ha råd med en iphone"
3. (enforcing rules): "man ska inte slå sina barn"
4. (signaling intention): "jag ska åka på semester"
5. (communicating an statement, not nessecarily truthful): "han ska vara välhängd"
Especially in coordination with a media campaign, it would be an effective way of undermining the opponent by making them look simultaneously grossly unethical and desperate. Even better if you can get the FBI involved to investigate whether the video was created directly by the opponent or "only" by his supporters. And anybody describing what actually happened could easily be straw manned into sounding like a nutter.
And the quality is already perfectly fine for this.
Most of the people who’d believe a video saying the opposite of what they’d expect is real have never been aware of deep fakes.
And now thanks to this poor deepfake they are aware of deepfakes and are primed to question future videos, even if they seem real.
They may also be primed to question real videos. Aka “flood the zone with shit”.
I had the feeling Russia hasn't used their best men and equipment yet, which also seem less likely bu the day
This is a dynamic we've not seen before - Zelensky is out and about so he's seen by his people, but a huge amount of this entire effort is being shared online through social media. You don't have to convince people its authentic - you can just convince everyone that everything is fake.
There's a subreddit called "AteTheOnion" which chronicles people mistaking wildly obviously fake and humorous articles from The Onion and other sites.
If people aren't able to discern those articles from reality what hope is there?
ISWYDT.
Same tactics as with what Internet at large nowdays calls "trolls". The onces that you spot were probably ment to be spotted, so you lower your guard against the actual propaganda that isn't as obvious.
I mean I like to think of myself as fairly critical and I do this. I'm sure there's a ton of subliminal messages that have established themselves as facts in my head.
The video is not excellent, but the audio is pretty spot on, if you ask me.
Edit: re-worded the first sentence.
-nonsensical title
-no comments
-all videos on account are unlisted
-you just found it
Hmmm. How did you “find” this?
To be clear: the video is not mine. I simply uploaded it to youtube as an unlisted video to support my point. This original video was posted on Feb 28th to one of telegram channels I'm subbed to. The channel is https://t.me/wildwildhack which is a channel for "wild wild hack" hackathon organized by the reface.ai guys.
- Largely inactive since 2019 until ~15 days ago.
- Ukrainian with ML background[1]
[1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20083793#20093381, Archive link: https://web.archive.org/web/20210224044558/https://news.ycom...
After the initial piloting fake information spreads like virus.
Russia has largely been seen negatively, not just for the invasion, but also their military performance. Underdogs are popular and Ukraine's stiff resistance vs what was thought to be a vastly stronger power and they have has captured a lot of the West's enthusiasm / support.
Russia's propaganda about nazis, being liberators, chemical weapons, 'military operation' vs war really hasn't penetrated much of the west / just comes off as absurd.
With that, is a video like this likely to do much?
This seems like a fake that only the fakers would think would work...
But this video looks like someone from 4chan made it "for the lulz".
That would make a lot more sense.
https://petapixel.com/2012/10/01/famous-valley-of-the-shadow...
I guess hindsight is 20-20 but does kind of seem like an obvious place to look, no?
It turned out that people don't believe tricked imaged without any context.
Also, the script (the text that is being read) is written as if the target audience are Russian, not Ukrainian people (because it's based on propaganda narratives that people outside of Russia are not familiar with). This is such a poor fake from every standpoint.
Deepfakes, can you spot them? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30606263
you can train a network to detect it, then a network to convince it, ad nauseum.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generative_adversarial_network
Good laugh though, still the existence of sky fairies like god, ie something that cant be proved is still order of the day for now it seems!
Maybe I should be, but I'm generally not looking for inconsistencies like that in everything I watch.
Edit: How many people have followed their sat-nav into lakes and rivers?
You cant give anything absolute trust, even binary on a cpu is just voltage ranges.
I know false surrender is a crime, but using propaganda to trick the enemy into a surrender by pretending to be them, I wasn't sure.
I guess - is this a tool we will see more often or a tool not fit for civilized warfare?
public key infrastructure has always stumbled over issues of authenticity, more than just indexing.
Just don't straight up believe everything you see on the internet. The 'propaganda' happens on either side.
I am just realising that Star Trek: Deep Space Nine actually had a similar scenario in an episode that aired in 1998. Essentially, a deepfake of a meeting of military leaders is created in a plot to persuade a neutral nation to join a war: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_the_Pale_Moonlight
That's generous. This video and it's audio are so bad, I wonder if this is a PSA, to remind people that this stuff exists, that the next one you see might also be fake.
Can anyone comment on reasons why it's not more widespread? Especially in social media, where provenance is nonexistent.
"Volodymyr Zelensky asking to retreat and surrender their weapons"
did it mean:
Volodymyr Zelensky asking invaders, Russia, to retreat and surrender their weapons
?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/apr/06/russia-bans-pi...
[0]: https://www.businessinsider.com/vladimir-putin-deepfake-mit-...
