And if you think nobody in America wants to jail journalists and media CEOs, go look at any forum with a substantial amount of Republicans talking freely.
The are not separate phenomenon at different stages, they are a global, coordinated group. They were coordinated by the massive cash flows coordinated by a small group in Russia. The use coordinated tactics, in concert with each other.
> In 2010, Assange gained unauthorized access to a government computer system of a NATO country. In 2012, Assange communicated directly with a leader of the hacking group LulzSec (who by then was cooperating with the FBI), and provided a list of targets for LulzSec to hack.
> Assange conspired with Army Intelligence Analyst Chelsea Manning to crack a password hash to a classified U.S. Department of Defense computer.
If this is true then he is not a journalist.
Note that even in the quoted allegations he pretty much didn't actually even do much at all. I don't know Assange, but I don't have doubts about who to side with.
But yes, we need to take it extremely seriously in the West and fight against any and all encroachments so that we don't slide further towards authoritarianism. Recent trends have been concerning.
It’s especially sad trying to cite him in this context, as we already know that he censors and threatens whistleblowers who ask him to publish documents on Putin.
Coincidentally enough, he has signed a contract with Russian state tv for his own tv show. He’s also been confronted about these facts and doesn’t bother denying any of it.
And that's ignoring the whole rape thing with Assange.
In Czechia up to 1 year for publicly supporting Russia (two people already detained): https://www.praguemorning.cz/expressing-support-for-russia-o...
In Slovakia, supporting [Russian] war propaganda 10 to 25 years: https://spravy.rtvs.sk/2022/02/za-podporu-vojnovej-propagand...
EU banned RT and Sputnik:
"It shall be prohibited for operators to broadcast or to enable, facilitate or otherwise contribute to broadcast, any content by the legal persons, entities or bodies listed in Annex XV, including through transmission or distribution by any means such as cable, satellite, IP-TV, internet service providers, internet video-sharing platforms or applications, whether new or pre-installed"
RT and Sputnik are literally Russian government entities.
What did this war look like? What actions did the government actually take to fight journalists covering POTUS unfavorably? Because I just remember an incredible amount of pearl clutching by journalists about how dangerous it is to say bad things about the press and how democracy would die in darkness if their credibility was questioned. It never actually stopped them from continuing act the same way.
https://pressgazette.co.uk/trump-vs-media-freedom-of-press-d...
Now that is out of the way, should we switch our focus back to how Russia suppress any domestic news about the ongoing Ukriane war? Or “special operation” as it’s only allowed to be called?
As if it's wrong to point out that tweeting and a 15 year jail sentence are not equivalent.
I can't understand what this means... are there really Russian vote-bots here or something?
There's a clear intent to derail and muffle.
Welcome to the world of Russian digital propaganda machine.
They even have puppet accounts arguing with each other, as was discovered by Russian media.
There's a difference between having LEGITIMATE business long BEFORE your dad has power vs. getting put on a board of a corrupt energy company WHILE your dad is overseeing the country relations as VP. One is capitalism, one is nepotism.
But all that being said, the statement "they get most all of their money from Russia" is wrong at face value. Their businesses do not get the majority of revenue from Russia. Back that statement up with a source so it can be torn apart.
You then claim that this is the "same authoritarianism" as that of Putin's Russia, where the press is firmly muzzled, where you can and will go to prison for in any way openly criticizing the United Russia Party or Putin himself and where reporters or political opponents are regularly, frequently murdered even abroad for going against the grain of Putin's narratives too often.
No, these are not cases of different stages, they're cases of entirely different worlds. Trump's authoritarian noises were mostly just noises and sloppy backlash. Putin's authoritarianism is the real thing.
If we are being completely honest, we won't pretend the last three (whether you mean Obama, Trump, Biden or Bush, Obama, Trump) were special in that regard.
I'm a liberal and would like to point out that fellow liberals say the same about conservatives. We're wasting energy and making enemies fighting a narrative warfare, and it's frankly very stupid.
Jail the their protestors, but not our own. Deplatform their voices and curtail their free speech, but not our own. It's the exact same behavior in both sides, yet both parties rush in to say how they're different and morally correct.
We need to mend ties, not strain them further. We're becoming too polarized, and that's exactly what authoritarians that eye the end of Democracy and its influence want. We're focused on fighting our petty squabbles instead of positioning ourselves in the global sphere.
If you think any of our manufactured crises are even in the same order of magnitude as what Ukraine is facing right now, then they're already winning.
My worry isn't in owning or being owned by the other party. It's that Democracy is shown to be less effective, that free speech is put in a box, and that we end the century in shackles. No future under those pretenses is worth looking forward to.
If there's one thing Democrats and Republicans agree on, it's that tech isn't censoring the things they want censored.
(note to mods: after debate, the answer was 0, plz no rate limtz)
What I fear most is a return to the historical mean - where the vast majority are mere peasants. Ignorant, and systematically oppressed, restrained, and exploited.
But this is not a left/right political issue. That is incidental. The social exploit of this foreign operational is orthogonal to political ideology and both side stand to suffer substantially. Trump's lack of conservative ideology bona fides are well documented.
Describing media outlets he didn't like as "a war against .. media" is sensationalist. Saying this is "the same authoritarianism in different stages" is the same as saying getting angry is the same as genocide - "same anger in different stages" which is what ahs given rise to the draconian "literally Hitler" attitude to any dissent; This in itself is totalitarian.
"So we're supposed to protect you against Russia and you pay billions of dollars to Russia and I think that's very inappropriate"
Trump 2018
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-nato-summit-pipeline/trum...
So, Putin is now saying, “It’s independent,” a large section of Ukraine. I said, “How smart is that?” And he’s gonna go in and be a peacekeeper. That’s strongest peace force… We could use that on our southern border. That’s the strongest peace force I’ve ever seen. There were more army tanks than I’ve ever seen. They’re gonna keep peace all right. No, but think of it. Here’s a guy who’s very savvy… I know him very well. Very, very well."
Trump 02/22/2022.
(emphasis mine)
Full audio interview here:
https://www.clayandbuck.com/president-trump-with-cb-from-mar...
From the center of strategic and international studies. It describes how the same ideology (white male christian) worldview is connected to Putin and Trump, and how the West is viewed as decadent through the moral lens of the fundamentalist churches in both the US and the Russian orthodox church.
From the article “Here traditionalism and identity are fused together such that disrupting one threatens the other. Any demographic change (particularly immigration from Muslim-majority and non-White countries, exacerbated in the public perception by low birth rates) is viewed as a direct challenge to identity and tradition.”
So maybe the better word is “strategic conversatism” as per the article.
Conservatism in the US is not what conservatism in France is. Conservatism in Mexico is not what conservatism in Brazil is.
Putin's version of conservatism, as mentioned in the article, is only applicable to Russia and countries with similar culture.
Comparing Trump to Putin is like comparing Nixon to Brezhnev.
I notice that Democrats aren't forming white supremacist militias, plotting to kidnap state governors, attacking Congress specifically to overturn the results of a national election, etc.
Remember when Hillary's mentor (Mr. Byrd) was a former KKK Grand Dragon (and Democrat Senator)? Or when that democrat attempted to assassinate a dozen Republican lawmakers on a baseball field? How about the one who killed five cops in Dallas? Or the ones who engaged in (or cheered on) the 2020 riots that did billions of dollars in damage (including a months-long attack on a Federal courthouse in Portland, complete with firebombing!)?
All of this finger pointing bullshit is a distraction, intended to scare stupid people to the polls.
Remember the accusations of racism that were used to shut down the lab leak theory? Or the demands to censor scientists with any dissenting viewpoints over Covid? The cover up of the Hunter Biden laptop scandal that resulted in journalists from the Post being banned?
The "war on disinformation" their obsessed with is not any different from a "war on fake news". Censorship is a tool of cowards and there are plenty of cowards in both parties that will use it to shut down any dissenting view points.
Democrats encourage anarchist militias who openly advocate for violence and arson, try to de-legitimize election results through "Russia-Gate" conspiracies, openly cheered on the fire bombing and attacking of police officers and government buildings(court houses), spread misinformation about the Kyle Rittenhouse despite all expert legal analysis saying they were misinformed.
No, of course it isn't. But many people I know, myself included, are afraid to speak out against what we see as new forms of hate levied in their name. The CHAZ or the hijacking of this brutal war against Ukraine into a commentary on care only being bound to race or the evacuation of cisgendered women and men from their own bodies by way of language so that everyone is "just" a vagina-haver or penis-possessor are just a few examples of where I see these pushes become the very weapons of the forces its proponents profess to fight.
> Do you notice, how much people, who stand for those issues, get attacked in the public discussion?
As a liberal (or what was liberal 10 years ago), I mostly notice how much people who stand for these issues attack others who have a different opinion and try to silence them.
This is the first time I'm giving voice to some of these deeply unpopular opinions in the new liberal left spaces like HN, for which I fully expect to be downvoted and potentially flagged into oblivion.
I don't think the oft-violent rhetoric and deplatforming crusades of the new left is the right way of effecting positive change on the world.
Framing it this way is misleading. "push back" that entails violent, harmful and illegal behaviour maybe wrong with total irrelevance to what you are trying to achieve.
> Do you notice, how much people, who stand for those issues, get attacked in the public discussion?
No, I see the opposite, to the extend that extreme virtue-signalling on these topics is met with no opposition, because no-one wants to be labelled an *-ist.
Isn’t it an issue of framing? E.g. it appears that some think that the solution to racism appears to be implementing institutional racism indefinitely until racism is cured.
This is distracting from the real issue of class warfare which is what psyops relies on to divide prior arguing past each other.
Democrats think Republicans are evil racists for trying to shut down diversity mandates. Republicans think Democrats are evil racists for trying to impose diversity mandates. They both want to eliminate racism, but their worldviews cause conflict on how to do that.
There are some legitimate fundamental differences on LGBT rights, I'll admit. Not so much on LG, but as you get further into the abbreviation, it increases.
The thing is, those are all non-issues now, and have been for a while. The reason the MSM is known as fake news in the US, is that they keep trying to push these as current issues, even though they've been settled.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mN3z3eSVG7A
The YT comment section actually has a few gems too.
Fitting, because the Reagan administration didn't realize at the time that they were accidently convincing the increasingly old men leading the USSR that the US was preparing a first strike on the evil empire.
https://youtu.be/e4an0MlF27k?t=11397
Twitter and facebook are being blocked. Youtube and group chats in telegram/signal/etc are the only things left right now.
7670 people have been detained so far.
I hope the citizens realize it can be just as bad in the West if we give governments and corporations more control
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/03/world/europe/russia-ukrai...
This is the silver lining as people on Reddit are reporting a marked decrease in right wing trolling in all their social media
Does anyone know of any organizations studying the ongoing levels of creation and engagement with that type of content?
The wording of the Hong Kong national security law asserts jurisdiction over people who are not residents of Hong Kong and have never even set foot there. This means anyone on Earth, regardless of nationality or location, can technically be deemed to have violated this law and face arrest and prosecution if they are in a Chinese jurisdiction, even for transit.
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2020/07/hong-kong-nat...
UK law people making social media posts could face two years in prison over Fake News https://www.rt.com/uk/539103-trolls-prison-psychological-har...
Another proposition is to send anti-war protesters to war “so that they can see what's actually going on”.
Maybe I'm being cynical, but I think there may be some potential problems with that approach.
This description matches everything that Putin and his lackeys have been doing since 22-02-2022
We'll see how the gamble goes. We may see Russia become North Korea 2.0 with the Putin family as the new Tzars of Russia. Or maybe a second governmental collapse is imminent.
We’re not free anymore. Haven’t been for a long time.
Bring back the FCC fairness doctrine.
Constitutions alone do nothing. If we're not on guard, collectively, we could easily end up without freedom of speech and press in practice.
The actual war isn't going well at all. Their reg troops are driving by wrecked russian equipment destroying their morale.
So they can't deal with reality, send everyone who dissents to prison.
It even had an additional electronic component which made it accept PAL signal, in addition to its native SECAM.
PS: Some say SECAM was technically superior to PAL, but dunno.
1. It is just a proposal: “The proposed legislation, which is supported by Vyacheslav Volodin, the parliamentary speaker, a close ally of President Putin, could be discussed by parliament as early as this week, state television reported.”
2. Another wild proposal, to forcibly conscript protestors, was shot down by Kremlin:
https://twitter.com/GazetaRu/status/1499402119836622858
It’s disappointing to see not one comment here suggesting that someone read beyond the headline. Et tu, Hacker News?
Fake news doesn’t mean literally everything in the article is fake. It’s a metaphor
Silverfish's brow furrowed. "Well," he said, "yesterday you said—"
"I mean metaphorically," said Dibbler quickly.
"Oh. Well. Metaphorically? I suppose not—"
"There you are, then."
— Terry Pratchett
To your credit "to" in the headline here could be considered misleading. It implies "[If the proposal by Volodin, a close ally of Putin, is successful] Russia to punish ‘fake news’".
https://nitter.snopyta.org/MarkAmesExiled/status/14991264245...
No one is innocent here. On Spanish media they dared to use videogame images (Arma 3) as real footage, ditto with a Chinese civil explosion (causality/accident) as a Russia bombing strike.
I'm going to go with jailing citizens for 15 years as much worse than mildly critical journalists in Russia.
Ignoring your combo whataboutism and gish gallop. Don't think Russia has much jurisdiction over some Spanish news channel.
Look what happened in Ukraine. Among neonazis, they supported this:
Ukraine's 2017 education law will make Ukrainian the required language of study in state schools from the fifth grade on, although it allows instruction in other languages as a separate subject,[65][66][67] to be phased in in 2023.[68] Since 2017, the Hungary–Ukraine relations rapidly deteriorated over the issue of the Hungarian minority in Ukraine.[69] According to the New Europe:
The latest row between Kiev and Budapest comes on the heels of a bitter dispute over a decision by Ukraine's parliament – the Verkhovna Rada – to pass a legislative package on education that bars primary education to all students in any language but Ukrainian. The move has been widely condemned by the international community as needlessly provocative as it forces the historically bilingual population of 45 million people who use Russian and Ukrainian interchangeably as mother tongues to become monolingual. Furthermore, the large minorities of Hungarians, Jews, Poles, Tatars, Gypsies, Romanians, Caucasians, and Gagauz generally speak and receive some formal or informal education in their own national languages, all of which will be adversely affected by the new draconian language statute.
Also:
Lviv Oblast Unian reported that "A ban on the use of cultural products, namely movies, books, songs, etc., in the Russian language in the public has been introduced" in the Lviv Oblast in September 2018.[71] Critics[who?] called the law ill-defined, illegal, and unconstitutional, and a successful January 2019 court challenge by the Chuhuiv Human Rights Group was dismissed on technical grounds in May, and could lead to a complaint before the European Court of Human Rights.[72]
They tried to ban the public usage of Russian in Ukraine.
That's a little step towards fascism.
I also don’t get “among neo-nazis” line.
In any case language question is more a Russian propaganda talking point, I don’t see it being major topic in the Ukrainian political life.
