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0 pointsthrowaway67344y ago0 comments

>Russia isn't the one starting this conflict

>Russia made it very clear, that ain't happening and they'll go to war over it.

Which one is it?

>The zero-evidence claims that Russia was about to invade sure look like pure propaganda from the same people who are thirsty for it.

The massive troop build up along Ukraine's border and in Belarus?

You're spreading Russian propaganda.

0 comments

oceanplexian4y ago

The problem is that Russia isn’t the only country that puts out propaganda, and most people are now well aware after the lies that were used to justify the Iraq war. So far I haven’t seen any objective facts except some out of context satellite photos and anonymously sources information from the US intelligence community (A group of people who’s job descriptions are to spread misinformation)

throwaway6734OP4y ago

Do you think troops have been moved to Ukraine's border in Belarus and in Russia?

gfosco4y ago

Look I think you're missing the point. Chew on it for a bit, don't respond half-cocked.

You: I want do to X.

B: If you do X, I will do Y.

You can try to convince B not to do Y if you do X...

but if B is prepared to do Y, and is showing you he's prepared to do Y...

and you can't convince him not to...

then you have to consider, that if you continue trying to do X, that You are the one agitating.

HWR_144y ago

Depending on what X and Y are, we condemn different actors. Agitating not really a word I would use for any pairing.

"Keep me from taking your purse" and "shoot you" we condemn B as a mugger.

"Leave me and meet someone new" and "shoot both of you" and we condemn B as a domestic abuser and potential murderer.

"Return a library book late" and "charge you $0.10 a day as a fine" and we condemn A lightly.

I would contend Russia's current actions fall squarely in the first two examples.

gfosco4y ago

Let's make your examples actually match the structure I set up. You've created some weird analogies that don't relate.

A: I want to take your purse.

B: If you take my purse, I will kill you.

If A continues to try and take the purse, A is obviously the agitator.

A: I want to leave you.

B: If you leave, I will kill you.

We agree B is a monster here, and this is a police matter, not global politics.

Maybe we can create a better example...

A: Hey B I want to nail your cousin.

B: I will not allow that to happen. Bro I will ruin your world. Literally, armageddon. Don't do it.

If A continues trying to nail the cousin, clearly the agitator.. no?

1 more reply

shagmin4y ago

The problem I have with this is it seems like you're arguing for might makes right. B is basically a bully and is making a choice for both parties then (B's way or war). Meanwhile I just don't want to be bullied or feel vulnerable to my bully neighbor.

gfosco4y ago

I'm not arguing in favor of might makes right, but global politics isn't simple and many of the players aren't rational or reasonable. I'm arguing for dealing with reality, and acknowledging reality. I don't have a strong position either way, to be honest, and I don't think really any of us know enough to be so confident.

throwaway6734OP4y ago

What are the X & Y in this situation?

Russia signed the Budapest Memorandum where they committed to respect Ukrainian borders and sovereignty with Ukraine giving up its nuclear arsenal.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse

0 comments

oceanplexian4y ago

throwaway6734OP4y ago

Do you think troops have been moved to Ukraine's border in Belarus and in Russia?

gfosco4y ago

Look I think you're missing the point. Chew on it for a bit, don't respond half-cocked.

You: I want do to X.

B: If you do X, I will do Y.

You can try to convince B not to do Y if you do X...

but if B is prepared to do Y, and is showing you he's prepared to do Y...

and you can't convince him not to...

then you have to consider, that if you continue trying to do X, that You are the one agitating.

HWR_144y ago

Depending on what X and Y are, we condemn different actors. Agitating not really a word I would use for any pairing.

"Keep me from taking your purse" and "shoot you" we condemn B as a mugger.

"Leave me and meet someone new" and "shoot both of you" and we condemn B as a domestic abuser and potential murderer.

"Return a library book late" and "charge you $0.10 a day as a fine" and we condemn A lightly.

I would contend Russia's current actions fall squarely in the first two examples.

gfosco4y ago

Let's make your examples actually match the structure I set up. You've created some weird analogies that don't relate.

A: I want to take your purse.

B: If you take my purse, I will kill you.

If A continues to try and take the purse, A is obviously the agitator.

A: I want to leave you.

B: If you leave, I will kill you.

We agree B is a monster here, and this is a police matter, not global politics.

Maybe we can create a better example...

A: Hey B I want to nail your cousin.

B: I will not allow that to happen. Bro I will ruin your world. Literally, armageddon. Don't do it.

If A continues trying to nail the cousin, clearly the agitator.. no?

1 more reply

shagmin4y ago

gfosco4y ago

throwaway6734OP4y ago

What are the X & Y in this situation?

Russia signed the Budapest Memorandum where they committed to respect Ukrainian borders and sovereignty with Ukraine giving up its nuclear arsenal.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse