I have till Monday (less than a week) to sign the document.
I am located in Australia.
Should I sign the document so my employer has access to all my medical records and all the psychiatrist's notes on me?
TL;DR ADHD Software Developer. Employer demands access to all information in my medical records.
Letter I am forced to sign to keep my job is below:
Link: https://imgur.com/a/Qpvw9M6
To answer the question: I wouldn't ever do it. I have ADHD, there is nothing embarrassing in my med records but I would not trust any unrelated company (employer, client) to handle and erase this data safely. It's private and absolutely not intended for them.
If I may ask, what happened prior to the request of your employer? Did they found otherwise illicit drugs on you and require this documentation as a proof that you are allowed to possess it?
For many other places it’s fines for the employer, potential back pay and a settlement of a few tens of thousands (severance).
You should consider seeking employment legal advice so you can have expert help navigate this with you.
You should call someone from https://www.fwc.gov.au/resources/where-get-legal-help from the “Legal help from other organisations” section.
I’m based in Australia too.
I assumed it would be something like: medical professional is briefed on my typical duties; medical professional assesses my abilities to perform these duties; medical professional then makes a recommendation to the employer. However on arriving and being presented the T&Cs and pre-check questionnaires, it became clear that the exercise was actually one of me declaring any and all medical information I could, with the T&Cs requiring that I consent to all of this information being provided to the employer.
I phoned my contact at the employer and said that this was ridiculous, and that none of the information I was asked to provide was relevant to the role: "it's just company policy for all employees", "we have a solid privacy policy".
They said that they had another health provider who was more 'lax' about what they asked. I contacted the provider and got a hold of their equivalent T&Cs and questionnaire, and it was way worse. Example questions: "Are you happy with your current weight?", "Has your weight changed in the past 5 years?", "In terms of noise, have you ever been exposed to (chainsawing|scuba diving|panel beating)?", "Are you pregnant or do you think you could be?". There were also questions about health conditions of family etc.
Ultimately I told them I wasn't interested in the organisation whilever they required me to unnecessarily disclose personal medical information. That said, I recognise I am very fortunate to be in a financial position to 'die on that hill', but I wish enough of us felt able to stand up to this bullshit so that none of us would have to.
Thats some grim future we are heading with this. And that software dev field, one of most competitive fields for finding personnel. As soft dev you are in position of power and yet people put up with this stupid shit.
Good on you for telling them to fuck off.
It sounds like its quite common in Australia, but why?
1) My skills are unimportant (except when they want overtime. Then, no noe else could possibly do the wonderful job I can!); 2) I am easily replaced (maybe by much cheaper contractors) and 3) My salary requirements are ridiculous. Only the top executives are worth that kind of money!
When I turn down an offer or even an interview over something ridiculous (What do you mean I need to sign an NDA just to be interviewed? Hell no!) they act as if I'm the unreasonable one. Somehow this never changes my mind.
As a personal rule, if there is one thing I will never, ever share with my employer, no matter how much support they say they'll give me, is my mental-health data. The potential for abuse is just way, way too high.
Document everything, try to keep the situation at work coasting along while you speak to a competent lawyer. I'm not Australian or anyone's lawyer, but my impression is that any sudden moves here can make the case against your employer much harder if you give them a reason to fire you. Next couple months are likely gonna be rough. Watch out for gaslighting attempts.
Be safe out there.
Addendum: I should clarify what I meant by "coasting along". I've heard that if you stop working come Monday that can also make the case harder for you if they fire you, since they can just say you "stopped showing up". Again, not legal advice, just advice I've heard, see what your lawyer thinks...
Don't be ridiculous.
Grab another phone/tablet/notebook, get to the door, record a video "Hi, this Nth of Month, I'm at work and cant enter (angry beeps from the door controller) and today is really Nth of Month, see (opening a site which shows a date and time, like a newspaper or stocks)"
EZ PZ
https://lawpath.com.au/blog/what-information-can-an-employer...
/edit: what's the back story about this, your boss won't come to all of his subordinates, lock their accounts and demand their medical records?
BUT - I feel like we're missing some context here. Is your reason for refusal based solely on privacy concerns, or that you don't want them to know you see a psychiatrist? Have you been underperforming and used your ADHD as justification/excuse as to why and they want some proof of that?
You're mentioning the ADHD, so it must be relevant in some way, otherwise the post would simply be "My company wants my medical records, should I allow it?"
Without any context, it does seem as though this would be illegal in my jurisdiction. However, OP mentions that the request is authorisation for HR, to request medical information, which suggests someone has already reviewed this from HR and it's possible they're more familiar with the law than you or I are in terms of what they can and can't ask for. Especially the 'twelve (12)' stinks as though it's been drafted by a lawyer.
That said, normally a 'fitness to work' proceeding in my jurisdiction would not be entitled to future medical records, and the medical records would be reviewed by first your local GP, and then eventually potentially a government occupational health authority, and would never be passed to the employer.
If this were me, I would most certainly refuse. I would instead offer to provide a statement from my doctor that I am fit to work. I can't see any way that this arrangement could possibly benefit OP.
I’d just quit, but calling a lawyer sounds right too.
But for example it would be reasonable (albeit inappropriate) to ask medical records of someone taking paid sick days too often.
I don't know about Australian law but in jurisdictions I'm familiar with what you are describing is definitely illegal.
Australia is often much worse, in this sort of area, than people think. Despite a superficial similarity with UK culture and laws (which already are much weaker than the Western European average, but anyway), they are actually pretty wild.
Wikipedia says about discrimination, not about medical records.
Also, it is legal to fire people based on their vaccination status which is obviously a medical record.
Keep all documentation, hire a lawyer, and do exactly what they say.
I'm not an expert in Australian law, but in every single country it's expressly forbidden to ask about people's health history as it's covered by multiple laws.
However, trying to give a different point of view, they might need some sort of proof to justify internally or with the government something (i.e. an under-performance or too many ill days). For example, here in Italy we have the so called "protected categories", for which employers (bot public and private) must hire in a given percentage above a certain number of staff, and must have a certification of the condition causing to belong to such categories. But, this does not involve accessing patient records by any means.
So, on the baseline I agree with the others on the "don't do it line", and if I were you I would seek legal advice. But there is a small chance that it is not as bad as it seems.
I will echo what others have said: get a lawyer. The laws of their jurisdiction will play a role. If those laws don't offer them protection in this regard, they may have some difficult decisions to make.
Much more likely, the boss got wind of some "mental instability" and now doesn't trust the worker; or was already looking for excuses to fire him and thinks he's now found it.
https://www.fairwork.gov.au/workplace-problems/fixing-a-work...
[0] https://www.racgp.org.au/afp/2017/august/employment-law-a-gu... (not the best source but probably a more useful one than the actual legislation)
My personal assumptions - It sounds like you have some or all of the following happening; a) a poor relationship with your boss, b) you have been back and forth refusing to sign this, c) had a bunch of time off sick, d) are on the path to being dismissed and they are lining up their various options, e) company has a covid vaccine idea to have everyone sign this and it has nothing to do with your mental health.
Some combination of the above suggest you are on your way out of the organisation - brush up the cv, cleanup your work and get an employment lawyer for the pending dismisal. You have been there 10 years, its amazing how personal and owrk merges over time. I didnt even have a copy of my employment contract when they shut the workplace email, phone, etc off. Let alone internal information that will be relevant to your dismisal. Disclaimer: dont steal stuff or IP etc.
If they are locking the doors, you may have missed the bus to negotiate a reasonable settlement whereby your practicioner(s) can certify you have no medical issues that would affect your role without the full release of medical records. If my assumptions are all wrong then that would be the most reasonable course of action.
There's no job where ADHD is going to be disqualifying for health and safety reasons.
Where employers have concerns regarding the impact of an employee’s health on safety in the workplace, or there is uncertainty regarding adjustments required or the employee’s capacity to fulfil the inherent requirements of the job, employers can request employees to consent to obtaining further information from a treating practitioner – under threat of dismissal if necessary.
Can employers require additional medical information from a treating practitioner?
In certain circumstances, employers can require additional medical information from an employee’s treating practitioner. Employers have a non-delegable duty of care for the safety of anyone affected by their business operations. If the circumstances indicate that an employee’s health may have an impact on their safety at work, or that of third parties (eg co-workers), the employer has the right to clarify whether the employee’s circumstances can safely be accommodated.
Additional information may also be required to ascertain whether adjustments to the workplace can be made without detrimentally affecting the business, or to ascertain whether the employee is able to fulfil the inherent requirements of their position over the long term. In these circumstances, even if an employee is reluctant to provide the information, the employee – under a lawful threat of dismissal – can be directed to consent to provision of the information by their treating practitioner.
”In many cases, employers have the right to seek further health information from their employees (eg for health and safety obligations), and employees can face disciplinary action and even dismissal if they are uncooperative.”
When I worked in a former UK colony in Asia I was kind of amazed I had to get a health exam and provide the results to my employer before starting.
Luckily the same country isn’t great on follow through so nobody bothered me when I didn’t do it.
Once upon a time (not very long ago) all the health insurance claims went through HR. And HR loves to gossip!
This is ridiculous
Definitely enforceable without a doubt - and many industries have it as part of a standard employment contract, e.g Aircraft pilot.
Also as part of fairwork legislation to prevent being fired as a result of extended sick leave it actually requires disclosure of the condition.
Otherwise, the idea of getting a lawyer seems like a great way to get free money in this circumstance
- Hacker News
- Some Idiots on Hacker News
For example, in the UK, the tube lines were brought to a screeching halt because TFL wanted to take disciplinary action against a driver that failed a breatherliser test. (https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-31372269)
if $title =~ m/^ask hn.*\b(employer|boss|hr)\b/i reply("Talk to a lawyer.")