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0 pointsCogitoCogito4y ago0 comments

I'm not sure what to say about your comparison to Hawaii. Hawaii has been dominated by the US since it was conquered. Xinjiang and Tibet have been dominated by the PRC for a long time. Taiwan has _never_ been controlled by the PRC. To say they are the same is delusional. I'll just leave this topic because you seem to be set on believing this more than really thinking critically about it. Think what you will.

> As far as China and literally almost all of the world are concerned, Taiwan is an island belonging to China. The legitimate Chinese government is the PRC.

Which countries take this stance? For example, the US certainly does not say that Taiwan is PRC territory. There's never been any UN decision saying so either. So I'd be interested to hear what countries you're referring to considering it's apparently "almost all the world".

> It should furthermore be noted that China has experience with temporarily ceded territory they retake after tens if not hundreds of years ( Hong Kong, Liaoning, Manchuria, Qingdao, etc.), so i don't think they see things as "this land hasn't been ours for X time, it's no longer a part of us".

Yeah it's pretty standard for countries to try to legitimize their military imperialism. It's much easier than to admit as a society that you're just a bunch of warmongers opportunistically oppressing weaker peoples. China really isn't any different.

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sofixa4y ago· 1 in thread

You're too hung up on the Hawaii example, so I'll clarify again - it'd be exactly the same scenario if the Confederacy run away to it and stayed there while assimilating the local population. They didn't, so it's not the same.

As for the stance, the US officially recognises the PRC's claim over Taiwan. The rest of the world recognises the PRC as the one and only China, and nobody recognises Taiwan as an independent country. Which means that either Taiwan doesn't exist, or is within the PRC for everyone de jure.

I'm sorry, but.. i don't even know how to respond to the last bit. I give you examples of China taking back lands they were deprived of for decades by foreign imperialists ( Hong Kong and co), and your response to this is that China is the imperialist warmonger in that situation? What were they to do, leave their territory partitioned by foreign colonialists? When France took back Alsace-Lorraine, or when Turkey fought against the Sevres treaty, was that an imperialist act? (The rest of what France was doing, and a lot of what China is doing today are very much imperialist, but liberating your own lands from a foreign imperialist power is... not imperialism)

CogitoCogitoOP4y ago

> You're too hung up on the Hawaii example...

My whole point in this in these posts is that Taiwan's situation is _not_ comparable to Hawaii. Your initial response was to question my knowledge of history and the situation. But given that you here are tacitly admitting that Hawaii really isn't comparable to Taiwan I guess I can drop the subject. You don't yet seem to be able to openly admit the comparison was wrong, but you at least (subconsciously maybe?) understand it to be the case so I'll settle with that.

> As for the stance, the US officially recognises the PRC's claim over Taiwan.

I'm sorry, but are you saying the US has recognized the PRC's claim to Taiwan? I'm probably just misreading you, but in that case, you are totally wrong. Is that what you believe?

> The rest of the world recognises the PRC as the one and only China, and nobody recognises Taiwan as an independent country. Which means that either Taiwan doesn't exist, or is within the PRC for everyone de jure.

Yeah you now basically almost understand it. If you want to be most accurate, basically the US doesn't have an official stance as to who governs Taiwan. As in, they do not exist if you want to put it that way. If that seems like a silly position, you must realize that it's really just a pretend game to placate China. Of course the US considers the ROC the true government of Taiwan considering the myriad of ways the US deals with it (economy, travel, military, etc.), but they wont say it out loud because that way they can exploit China's markets while playing to Chinese denial of reality. Regardless, no the US has not taken the position that Taiwan is PRC territory. That is a fact that you might want to internalize. I'm pretty sure it's exactly the same situation with the vast majority of countries (certainly in Europe, but I can't speak to the whole world).

> I'm sorry, but.. i don't even know how to respond to the last bit. I give you examples of China taking back lands they were deprived of for decades by foreign imperialists ( Hong Kong and co), and your response to this is that China is the imperialist warmonger in that situation? What were they to do, leave their territory partitioned by foreign colonialists? When France took back Alsace-Lorraine, or when Turkey fought against the Sevres treaty, was that an imperialist act? (The rest of what France was doing, and a lot of what China is doing today are very much imperialist, but liberating your own lands from a foreign imperialist power is... not imperialism)

China is trying to take over lands and peoples that have basically been separate for 120 years. Those peoples don't want to be a part of China. Just accept it. China is a warmonger and an imperialist. It would be no different than if Russia invaded all its former lands in Europe because they were part of the Russian empire 100 years back. Stop trying to pretend that other countries' past actions legitimize China's. Have a little self-respect.

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