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0 pointskragen4y ago0 comments

I suppose it depends on what definitions you're using of words like "government", "leftist view", "their property", and "anarchist"; clearly at least one of them differs from the mainstream definitions. I suspect it's "anarchist", since anarchism (as normally understood) opposes coercive hierarchy more broadly than just the usual definition of "government", including things sometimes described as "property", but I can't know for sure; you might be using a nonstandard definition of "government" instead, for example.

As I said before, though, you might benefit from reading at the introductory section of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchism.

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notch656a4y ago

I've looked it over. I understand leftists have a rich history of invoking anti-state ideology. I'm using the oxford definition of anarchism.

I'm not saying leftists can't exist in anarchism as some sort of pact or contract amongst leftist, in the sense of without coercive hierarchy. But I don't see how anarchism is inherently leftist. If leftism means socialism or some form of redistributing property involuntarily, that sounds coercive.

Voluntary exchange of property and capital is the opposite of coercion. It seems capitalism fits in neatly with anarchism.

denton-scratch4y ago

> I'm using the oxford definition of anarchism.

Which Oxford definition? You've cited "The Oxford Dictionary" up-thread. There's a bunch of online lexicographical resources that are unrelated to the OED, but trade on its name and reputation.

At any rate, a brief definition from a concise lexicon is no substitute for doing some proper reading on the subject. And even reading will leave you pretty confused about how it can possibly work; participation in an anarchist collective might blow your mind.

notch656a4y ago

https://languages.oup.com/google-dictionary-en/

Anarchism isn't some cursory subject for me. Someone up thread mentioned Rojava as an example of something closest to an anarchist collective. I went there and lived there. What I found was voluntary trade which we commonly call capitalism. I find this to be compatible with anarchism when trades are made voluntarily and not say, by strong arm of government forcing how you trade with people or the strong arm of some "anarchist" "opening up access" to your capital.

denton-scratch4y ago

I would consider "opening up access" to someone else's capital to be a kind of theft, in general, and not consistent with anarchism. When the capital in question is means-of-production that the workers have contributed to building, things are a bit less clear-cut.

Allowing workers to join the board, perhaps as a response to an all-out strike, might be a step towards worker's collectives.

It's much easier to articulate the objectives than the path.

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denton-scratch4y ago

I just checked out Rojava on wikipedia; it's a new one on me. Turns out it's what I have thought to be the Kurdish Autonomous Region.

I have heard that KAR operates on roughly-anarchist lines, and works well; I'm very interested in large-scale, working, contemporary anarchist and collective societies. The only other one I can think of is Catalunya, which is sometimes described as anarchist. It appears to me to be mostly capitalism with a strong public sector, along with some major collectivised industries. But I'm not familiar with how decisions are made.

I'm very interested to hear that you've spent time in Rojava.

[Edit] Clarified, I hope.

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notch656a4y ago

I've looked it over. I understand leftists have a rich history of invoking anti-state ideology. I'm using the oxford definition of anarchism.

Voluntary exchange of property and capital is the opposite of coercion. It seems capitalism fits in neatly with anarchism.

denton-scratch4y ago

> I'm using the oxford definition of anarchism.

Which Oxford definition? You've cited "The Oxford Dictionary" up-thread. There's a bunch of online lexicographical resources that are unrelated to the OED, but trade on its name and reputation.

notch656a4y ago

https://languages.oup.com/google-dictionary-en/

denton-scratch4y ago

Allowing workers to join the board, perhaps as a response to an all-out strike, might be a step towards worker's collectives.

It's much easier to articulate the objectives than the path.

1 more reply

denton-scratch4y ago

I just checked out Rojava on wikipedia; it's a new one on me. Turns out it's what I have thought to be the Kurdish Autonomous Region.

I'm very interested to hear that you've spent time in Rojava.

[Edit] Clarified, I hope.

1 more reply

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse