> PRO TIP Use screws for everything; if you mess up, remove the screws and redo it; with nails, it’s a lot harder to do that.
You absolutely should not do this for framing, and most building codes specify the type and size of nails that you must use when fastening load-bearing structural components.
Screws are convenient, sure, but they are necessarily much harder than nails and are prone to embrittlement and cracking, while nails are soft and pliable. You can get structural screws, but they're uncommon, expensive, and I'd wager they weren't used here (they're much beefier than a similarly rated framing nail).
I had to stop reading r/diy because half the stuff in there made me angry. Especially people building lofts to store heavy stuff without knowing anything about construction.
You can’t overlap rooflines like this. That’s how they allow people to build small outbuildings but make large projects have to get permits. If the roofs “touch” then you’re using a loophole to make an illegal addition to your house instead of a shed.
> The way I did it was to run both wires inside a 3/4 inch PVC conduit using 14/2 electrical wiring + 100ft cat6 ethernet cable.
You are going to get somebody killed. I didn’t see you dig a trench, which means you have a single plastic conduit carrying power and data and exposed to the air. It’s supposed to be grounded metal buried conduit to create a faraday cage that can’t be electrified by nearby lightning strikes or hit by a tree or debris in a wind storm. And deep enough the next owner doesn’t kill themselves planting a hydrangea.
I have half a mind to doxx you to your city planning office.
I really like that because just mentioning code doesn't do any good. Just because code says something doesn't mean that it makes sense. There's tons of omissions in codes or stuff that is unnecessarily restrictive or way not enough to be safe.
Screws are the perfect example. If code forbids screws but you are going to use the proper screws that are (with good reason) allowed in other jurisdictions that has a completely different vibe to it than someone blogging about using dry wall screws to frame a house. One is a safety concern and why inspections are a good thing, while another is a minor case of ignoring code without any concerns and where an inspection would suck (if you were the homeowner doing some work yourself). If they want to use something that is more expensive and let's them do something themselves that they wouldn't be able to do at all if they had to use nails, more power to them! Change code to allow the right type of screws!
Your second part of the reply does the same, it sort of explains why you think it's a bad idea (and I agree that it is for various reasons).
Could you explain why it is not a good idea to overlap roof lines?
Following is for other folks running across this, in case it helps them.
At least in California, I’m pretty sure it’s code compliant to use rated non-metallic conduit for outside high voltage runs for instance. That conduit is made of PVC. It’s the grey plastic electrical conduit at every hardware store (if branded as UV resistant/outdoor rated).
Normal PVC pipe (for water) falls apart at too low a temperature and becomes super brittle when exposed to Sunlight surprisingly quickly.
It’s a much better idea to use EMT or even ‘hard’ conduit depending on how it’s exposed, but it’s not required. EMF protection is nice, but I haven’t seen a such a requirement for power feeds in residential anyway. If using 3 phase and some industrial equipment I imagine you’d be a jerk to not do so, but most residential neighborhoods here have overhead unshielded lines anyway.
Running to a separate detached building has a bunch of rules around grounding (for which you’ll find multiple mutually exclusive and conflicting codes across the county). Many areas don’t have lightning suppression rules though.
Depending on exactly how the building is constructed (technically ‘mobile’ vs ‘fixed) also changes codes a lot. Running the equivalent of an extension cord to a ‘mobile’ structure (which can be functionally fixed) is perfectly fine as long as it’s GFCI protected for instance. Not that he did that.
Ideally it would be a separate sub panel, grounded and protected as such, with proper rated conduit, etc.
But the bar is a lot lower than what you’re saying if someone follows some basic guidelines. And can be done safely.
But yeah, Article Author - you’re going to get someone killed. Jesus.
The proper way to do this is to dig a trench and use armored cable suitable for burial without further protection and to use a plastic uninterrupted tube for the cat6 (which you can blow through).
That said, there isn't a lot of difference between a DIY person and a low grade contractor, and a competent DIY'er is probably better than most mid level contractors. The big difference is usually that they have the tools and they're with a couple of people and you're just by your lonesome.
NM-B is not allowed outdoors (in “wet locations”) [0], and running your Ethernet cable and your power in the same conduit is no good. (Look up the code for feeders supplying structures — this is not even close to how it’s done. Maybe you can squeak by and consider this a structure supplied by a branch circuit, but there are still code requirements to pay attention to.)
Also, that weather resistant barrier…. Imagine you are a drop of rainwater on the outside of that WRB, following gravity. Where do you go? Straight to the exposed OSB sticking out at the bottom. The sheathing is toast in heavy rain.
[0] NM-B has paper running through it. Good old-fashioned water-wicking brown paper. If it gets a bit wet in a flooded conduit (hint: every outdoor conduit can be assumed to flood eventually), it will wick along the cable and never dry.
edit: there is absolutely no requirement that buried conduit be metal. In my experience, despite code allowing various types of galvanized steel conduit to be buried, they tend to corrode severely long before whatever wires are in them are safely disconnected, creating a hazardous situation. You can use PVC, HDPE, etc.
You are forcing low voltage and high voltage cables to share their electromagnetic field. That’s never a good thing. It can lead to unstable connection all the way to frying your Ethernet card.
I believe some jurisdictions now occasionally check e.g. Google Maps to look for obvious things like sheds built too close to existing structures (which this one likely is), so it's possible he'll get an unrequested visit from code enforcement anyway.
Same, I don’t want to rain on everyone’s parade, at the same time people should know “that might not be or ISN’T the way to do it…”
I was also wary of what I suspected were a lot of “Here are my before and after shots I took.” Where they didn’t do the work.
should be SWA
This is why we can't have nice, or at least affordable but slightly less than perfect, things. I would also note that, while I'm sure everyone's right about the rules in Santa Cruz, this is jurisdiction specific. In the UK, if your shed is less than 15m^2 and is not used as living accomodation, no building regulations apply, and you can build it with screws, nails, or corrugated cardboard and PVA glue if you're so inclined.
I really enjoyed reading the article just as someone who likes writing and reading. It was very engaging and I enjoyed the process he went through from having an idea to finally committing to it and I especially liked him commenting on things like choosing materials that fit in his car.
I also really am enjoying the comments on HN from knowledgeable, experienced people who know whereof they speak and I appreciate your comment because I spent years homeless and I've studied housing issues and lack of affordable housing is a root cause of homelessness in the US.
So this is a real issue and I'm reminded of the fact that after racist White people burned down "Black Wall Street" they then began interfering with the rebuilding by trying to pass more stringent fire safety codes when building codes had nothing to do with why it burned down. It burned down because hateful people torched it.
And I wonder how we solve this. I wonder how we balance all those concerns of not squelching creative impetus and not squelching a desire to add something cost effectively with real world concerns that "If you do it that way, people die or you burn out your Ethernet card (or whatever)."
Seems like with the internet being a thing, we could find ways to balance those many issues. But so far we really aren't.
People in the know are often comfortably well off. They have no problem with saying "Well, pay the few extra bucks to do it right." and the result is some people are sleeping in the streets and it falls on deaf ears when you try to draw those connections.
It's frustrating.
How is this defined? The purpose of this structure is to be used as an office; they'll presumably spend on the order of 40 hours a week in there. Is it only considered a living accommodation if you sleep in it?
I would expect electrical regs to apply regardless of how the structure is used. And regardless of whether the regulations apply, I would implore anyone reading this to do the electrical safely, not because the law tells you you have to, but because of the "it might kill someone" part.
In many US locations you aren't required to pull a permit and get inspections for sheds below a certain square footage either.
But that's not a free pass to build an unsafe structure. Using (non-structural) screws instead of nails is not a big deal for something this small that won't see snow load, but other things like mixing high voltage wiring and low-voltage wiring in the same conduit are a problem regardless of code.
Connecting something to the electrical system will also invoke code regulations, regardless of the size. There's no free pass for ignoring electrical regulations just because a building is below a certain size in the US, and I doubt there is in the UK either.
And is 'temporary', right? I didn't know about the size limit, but I thought it had to be a sort of free-standing structure not fixed into the ground - i.e. you can make a concrete level base, but you can't embed your vertical supports in it?
But yes building in the UK is much freer.
I sense it is much less common (beyond a basic shed or conservatory) though therefore less of an issue to solve.
* Plywood thickness required for floor decking
* Min roof slope for asphalt shingles
* Drip edge, where it's required and how to install it
* Roof drainage - probably doesn't matter because California but as a general rule you never want to channel water towards your foundation.
In the grand scheme these are relatively minor. They'll probably need to demolish the thing when they sell the house long before the roof slope causes water issues.
If he has really wired it as it seems, if anything consequential (unrelated) happens to the property in the meantime they'll use that against him when they inspect post event. They'll try to claim he breached the policy prior to the event.
[Project Farm](https://youtu.be/qmajKElnwfE)
[Vancouver Carpenter](https://youtu.be/5-PlR8tf84c)
Bikeshedding describes our tendency to spend too much time discussing trivial matters, and too little time discussing important matters as a result. It describes the inverse relationship between time spent and the importance of an issue.
(ISMETA)
The subject of building code seems vast. How can you get to the point where you even know what you don't know?
Agreed that eg GRK R4 structural screws are pricey, but they are widely available. You can buy them at Home Depot, for example. I do like them better than nails for small projects.
Telling people to not use structural screws is wrong, they are far superior to nails for DIY person. For starters using the right nail isn't that easy either - do you know if you inspector allows clipped head nails? Are you driving them in pressure treated wood? If so, do you have the right nail? With a GRK R4, you don't have to worry about any of those issues. They are easy to drive with an impact driver, for a noob, they are faster than driving a nail by hand, they can be removed, they are less likely to split wood.
The important thing here is that neither nails nor screws are "all the same". Know what you are using them for and use the correct ones. If you use any hangers or other ties, you can generally use screws or nails, but you MUST read the spec sheet from the manufacture to get the correct ones. Even "professional" home builders frequently use the wrong fasteners for these applications.
That sounds like bike-shedding :D
I think a bunch of folks need to get off their high horses about "building codes" and sort out their perspective. Sure nails might be the correct thing for a much larger structure, but for this piddly wee thing, who cares? If there's an earthquake then the adjacent house is likely to flatten this box regardless of fasteners used.
My only concern would be the electrical and that they'd hooked up a separate breaker for the "crate supply". Yes defo make sure that's correct.
But....It's just a shed
I did my research, understood that nails provide better strength. I chose screws. So do many other shed builders.
As for code, yeah most cities have codes on the hight and setback of backyard sheds. This shed doesn't look like it meets either.
https://www.strongtie.com/strongdrive_exteriorwoodscrews/sdw...
And worth it. I have boxes of different sizes of Simpson strong-tie and strong-drive screws and I adore them. And they're mostly available at any Home Depot.
I completely agree that running power and network cables in the same conduit is dangerous. I'm not as certain about the use of screws. To me, it looks that even if the whole shed collapses, the rubble would have hard time seriously hurting the person inside (except for the glass; I hope it's safety glass).
Since the wall of this building is actually under the roof line, they’ll make him tear this down or reroof his house to move it four inches over (although that might take a permit too, since you’re changing the roofline). Tearing it down is cheaper.
He may also be violating setbacks from the edge of the property, but those have been diluted here so frequently in large cities that he might be okay.
Each member country of the UK have their own different planning regulations - Scotland, England, Wales and NI. Also please cite where having a shed next to your property is illegal in any one of these jurisdictions. Under certain dimensions and heights, planning "law" doesn't apply.
(I enjoyed the article.)
Not gonna pollute with comments about it that others have already made.
I will add that I am making electrical/gas renovations to the house/detached garage.
Basically we are adding LP to the house for my new range, and a gas water heater. Also ran gas to the garage for powering a genset. The past year or so has taught me the import of off grid solutions for certain things like cooking and hot water.
So, I had to dig a trench from the house to the garage. Code called for 18” deep, but I went as deep as my backhoe would allow. Grey pvc conduit was put in for elec, a separate tube for fiber, and pex for water.
The LP co, came and installed a 250gal tank on a pad I poured, then ran gas in some kinda pex-like tubing to the house and garage. County eventually came out to inspect and signed off, allowing me to back fill (partly down now). Next steps are to finish connecting the pvc to the house, finish the water run, and then I need to buy the copper for the elect run - probably $1500 worth.
The only bits I’m concerned about is getting the power shut off, and power lines moved to the underground conduit I’ve placed from the pile to the house as I’ll need an actual electrician or will have to wait a week for the power company to turn back on after the shut off.
Off grid = No need for a permit but more importantly, a proof of concept that with starlink, this small office “shedquarters” could be placed anywhere in the world — say a beach in Costa Rica for example!
We’re 1 year away from a low latency, gigabit speed ”shedquarters” workspace being available anywhere in the world for under $10k.
https://www.homedepot.com/b/Tools-Hand-Tools-Marking-Tools-L...
I was plumbing a wall when I dropped my hammer and had to start all over.
* Ask HN: Why does a busy man build a shed? (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29767682)
* Why I Live In a Shed (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29762145)
Does HN have some kind of mechanism that promotes posts with similar keywords?
Another easy one to spot: there's sometimes clusters of articles from the same site if it's not a well-known one - people look around the site, find other good stuff and submit that too.
I don't say that this bad or anything, in fact I like that every day has a different topic on the front page. If this is a natural phenomenon then I have not heard about it yet (and it might be interesting to research?).
I think there are still lots of rules to follow.
I always figured that if I wanted to do a serious project like this, I would first do some volunteer work, maybe with Habitat for Humanity or similar, just to gain some experience.
Does anybody have stories about noobs volunteering to help with construction?
But assuming it’s a fenced in yard in the US, if someone is already in there when they shouldn’t be they’re already quite committed to mischief anyway.
"PRO TIP Use screws for everything; if you mess up, remove the screws and redo it; with nails, it’s a lot harder to do that."
Please don't, screws shear. Don't learn constrtuction from someone who hasn't learnt it himself.
As for writing about your experience like this, write a blog about something in your own field or otherwise don't give advice. It could end up with someone getting hurt.
There are structural screws that are excellent options for framing. GRK and Simpson make extremely well regarded structural screws that, at least in the US, are accepted for framing most/all building code offices.
Here is an example of a Simpson screw: https://www.strongtie.com/strongdrive_exteriorwoodscrews/sdw...
Here is a GRK: https://www.grkfasteners.com/structural/r4-multi-purpose-scr...
And the author is right - if you are a weekend warrior, they are far better than framing nails. You don't need a nail gun, just an impact driver which is usually less expensive and more useful for other tasks. They don't split the wood as much as a framing nailer, are generally more accurate to put in, and can be easily removed if needed.
I don’t get it. I see the majority of us, developers, writing about software without having a deep knowledge on the subject. The author’s shed is no more to me like the usual post “I built Twitter in Rust on a weekend”. Should we all stop giving “PRO tips”?
I like your shed.
I recently snagged the 12x16 with porch plans. I’m excited to give this a shot.
For the in-garage option, I've encountered three fully enclosed and insulated cubicles/offices in garages.
The first was a construction Project manager who built his along one side wall of his garage. I was very curious and talked with them about it and they had a couple good thoughts. The first was that they had a nice big window opening to the garage. Even it only gave them a view of their pickup truck, it really made the office feel less like a closet and could be opened for ventilation. The other advice was to leave enough room by the garage door for a repairman to get at everything; on a long enough timeline it will be necessary.
The other two were built by tradesmen I knew with single bay shops. They both built their offices on big casters for flexibility and one would roll theirs outside when they cleanded the shop.
(pre-painted, Including windows, door, insulation, electrical and Ethernet wiring, fire-proof compliance, able to resist heavy rain)
Six elements total, clickable into each other. Assembly time under one hour.
The author mentioned organizing material transport by figuring out what would fit in his car. I would highly recommend just renting a flatbed truck from home depot to transport your materials home if they don't fit in your car. Its usually something like $20 to rent for an hour.
Also I wonder if the author has any plans to heat/cool the space. Seems like they might live in a temperate area. I'd would probably just install one of those DIY mini-split units to heat/cool the office if necessary.
Anybody looking to do this, you could probably go 8x8 for the same money, plywood comes 4x8 and most lumber comes in 8' lengths.
Not all insulations are the same. You have to research which type is best given your temperature, humidity, etc. Some require special handling and care... For example, you don't want to breathe fiberglass, or to contaminate your workspace with it.
Good air quality in a work area is a must. You want air free of particulate matter and volatile organic compounds. Opening the window when it's raining is not a viable option. You need some form of ventilation and air filtering. Maybe also air conditioning and heating.
You also don't want to build a structure that is against zoning limitations or that brings you tax liabilities.
Note that it’s against code to run electrical and data cable in the same conduit, both for safety and interference. Get outdoor rated cat 6 and leave it out of the conduit instead.
It genuinely is not that hard. I did spend most time working out the right spec (ie safety, structural etc.) and the main build took me about 2 months. I was in by month 3 and fully finished by 4 months.
I am ok with big structural stuff, interior (drywalling for example) I don't have the finesse for, but it looks OK.
I love DIY, it gets me off a keyboard! And scratches the engineering itch I miss as a people leader.
It's not hard though. Like anything it takes a bit of planning and practice. Plus the confidence to have a go.
The fact that you need a shoddily built (I'd be ashamed to post something like this on the internet) 6x6 shed to work in, while you have a perfectly fine house right next to it.
Or how many fear-mongering code NIMBYs there are in this thread. Some even threatening to doxx the OP. Yikes. Do you guys know how much legacy not-up-to-code housing stock there is across the country, that's actually dangerous to inhabit? And you chose to cry wolf about an accessory structure CA?
Screws have the advantage of not backing out. So at right angles (think a deck board attached to the joist) they are preferred. Lateral force will, however, easily snap them. But for framing they are probably a code violation.
The instructions are so well-designed that it's a pleasure to read even if you're not completing the project.
No need to re-recommend it. We read the article :-)
Where I happen to be, I can build what I like without a permit as long as it's under 100 sq ft, doesn't tie in to plumbing or electrical, isn't in lot setback areas, and it doesn't push the lot coverage over the limit but if I were to park a trailer on the property for any other reason than to store it, I'm in trouble.
Never assume. I knew someone in the situation of being on a road that was a zone boundary. Research revealed they couldn't do what they wanted just because the guy across the street was doing it too.
Another angle to look into: Have you considered just buying a travel trailer or pre-built shed to use as an office? More than once I have personally fallen into the trap of spending $100 in materials and $1000 of my time to avoid a $500 expense when my time would have been better spent getting back to work to pay for a bought solution.
I’ll definitely do my research and see what I can come up with.
I would love a general book recommendation, if it exists, for "common construction codes ELI5".
It would be better for helpful best practices to be accessible and easily comprehensible rather than be bound up in some municipal website.
Also isn't this going to get really hot in the summer? A small air con unit could work well with a hole cut for the vent?
I've been looking to scratch a similar itch and your post has inspired me to start looking into it, so thanks for posting!
36 square feet? good to go.
If I were to do it, I'd make it slightly bigger and put a electrical sub-panel in it with an extension cord like an RV has. You could plug it into anywhere with an RV outlet.
It's also easy enough to move any shed like this that's 8 feet wide or less on a car-hauler trailer or with dollys/rollers underneath.
- Do you regret having children?
- Do you regret living together with your spouse?
Obviously, in a pre-Covid world leaving your home to go to work was simply the societal expectation of how to acquire an income. WFH mostly came with economic downsides (lower salary, no promotions).
During Covid and post-Covid it's quite an interesting question why somebody would voluntarily lobby to add unpaid work time in the form of a commute to their day.
