China: Democracy That Works (opens in new tab)

(news.cn)

13 pointshillcrestenigma4y ago27 comments

27 comments

In all seriousness after getting addicted to reading Liu Cixin (who the PRC seems to fully support) Ive found myself occasionally wondering how much of what I think about China and it's oppressive surveillance state could possibly be ambient US propaganda or anti propaganda.

But then again the only friend I have that speaks Chinese and has visited China for work multiple times backs most of it up.

More of a thought experiment but getting hooked by clickable title here stirred it up again in my head.

natded4y ago

Most of the online discussion centered around China is just US domestic political projection using an imaginary China as a mirror, or as a counterfactual which doesn't exist, and then there's the obvious propaganda too.

dirtyid4y ago

"Whole-process democracy", i.e. democracy with Chinese characteristics was formulated at 4th plenum in 2019. Was wondering when it was going to be weaponized on international stage. I think it will go further to erode west's monopoly on defining democracy than most here would think. PRC tends to gain plurality support at UN for initiatives that undermines western discourse power.

Either way, plays well domestically. Latest democracy perception index: 73% of PRC Chinese thinks the country is democratic, 84% thinks democracy is important, which is... high even compared to actual democracies. Perceived Democratic Deficit gap of 11% means citizens think the government is largely living up to expectations.

travisgriggs4y ago

Is there a karma level on HN where you can downvote articles? I can down and upvote comments, but only upvote articles.

Will there be a point in my karma life when I can downvote a submission like this?

hillcrestenigmaOP4y ago

I just thought that this whitepaper from the Chinese government was interesting to share. I do recognise that the whitepaper is propaganda but not all my submissions have to reflect my thoughts and opinions.

Given that Hacker News occasionally has discussions on politics I believe that it is fitting to share, propaganda or not.

travisgriggs4y ago

I accept this. It's an interesting problem. We have but one bit (up/down) to express different thoughts about submissions, but it's not enough to express the different flavors of "downvote."

celticninja4y ago

Sharing propaganda is never a good idea. The only benefit is to the producers of the propaganda.

simonblack4y ago

Except that: "Who is it that gets to define what is propaganda and what isn't?"

The West is no more blameable or blameless than anybody else.

Many of the West's 'truths' have been later discovered to be 'lies'. Remember Saddam's WMDs? Remember those nasty Huns spiking Belgian babies with their bayonets? Remember the Vietnamese gunboats attacking a US destroyer in the 'Tonkin Gulf Incident"? Remember the Soviets sneakily placing nukes in Cuba, whereas the US would never, never have sneakily placed similar nukes in Turkey months and months long before that?

If you always listen only to one set of propaganda you'll never be able to see what the objective facts are likely to be. It's called 'Confirmation Bias". Be prepared to spend time looking at lots of other viewpoints. Most of them eventually cancel each other out, leaving a solid core of 'probable truth'.

2 more replies

dane-pgp4y ago

Here's a guide to how it doesn't work:

* 1 point - unlocks commenting

* 5 points - unlocks submissions

* 10 points - unlocks "ask"

* 50 points - unlocks "show"

* 100 points - unlocks flagging comments

* 500 points - unlocks downvoting comments

* 1000 points - unlocks flagging submissions

* 5000 points - unlocks downvoting submissions

* 10000 points - unlocks editing/deleting your own comments/submissions of any age

* 50000 points - unlocks editing/deleting other people's comments/submissions of any age (i.e. mod status)

* 100000 points - unlocks selection by YC for your startup

vanusa4y ago

I think it should be upvoted, actually - for showcasing just how bonkers the CPC really is.

greenyoda4y ago

Nobody can downvote articles on HN. However, if an article is off-topic or otherwise violates site guidelines, you can flag it. I don't think this article should be flagged however, since it's a rare glimpse into how the Chinese Communist Party tries to influence world opinion (although I doubt many could be convinced that China is a democracy).

baash054y ago

Off topic? I just read an article about Sesame Street, and followed it up with an article about tornados, followed by a video of "Planes I see from my front yard." I'm not sure what topic HN really falls under.

greenyoda4y ago

It's discussed in the first couple of paragraphs of the HN Guidelines:

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

pkdpic4y ago

Thats a good question.

da-x4y ago

> The system of multiparty cooperation and political consultation under the leadership of the CPC is a basic element of China's political framework.

TIL the CCP has (only?) about 70% of the seats [1]. I wonder what power or influence the other members have.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_parties_in_C...

seanmcdirmid4y ago

Imagine if Republicans got to vet and affirm any Democrats who would serve in congress, how much power do you think the Democrats would have? Regardless, it’s not like the NPC has much power anyways, they basically just rubber stamp whatever the politburo decides on.

Also paradoxically, given that the NPC has a quota for non-CPC members, it is often easier to get a seat being a non communist than a communist.

lettergram4y ago

From:

> The State Council Information Office of the People's Republic of China

So literally the propaganda office lol

natded4y ago

This is much more fair than the government and the so-called independent media doing it through back-channels, no? I personally would prefer if my government named the office that controls national broadcasting as the "The Department of Information" or better yet, "The Department of State Propaganda"

Some interesting links:

> https://twitter.com/oliverdarcy/status/1468064220843425796

> https://twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1469331084550852615

> https://twitter.com/AuronMacintyre/status/146832775301131879...

vanusa4y ago

This document is actually quite fascinating -- if nothing else than as an dazzling display of institutional mind rot.

So it shouldn't be flagged. It would be a shame if it didn't get wider circulation, in fact.

garbagecoder4y ago

This but ironically.

zeristor4y ago

Check for April 1st?

pkdpic4y ago

Or April the 4th (1984) ;p

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse

27 comments

pkdpic4y ago

But then again the only friend I have that speaks Chinese and has visited China for work multiple times backs most of it up.

More of a thought experiment but getting hooked by clickable title here stirred it up again in my head.

natded4y ago

dirtyid4y ago

travisgriggs4y ago

Is there a karma level on HN where you can downvote articles? I can down and upvote comments, but only upvote articles.

Will there be a point in my karma life when I can downvote a submission like this?

hillcrestenigmaOP4y ago

Given that Hacker News occasionally has discussions on politics I believe that it is fitting to share, propaganda or not.

travisgriggs4y ago

I accept this. It's an interesting problem. We have but one bit (up/down) to express different thoughts about submissions, but it's not enough to express the different flavors of "downvote."

celticninja4y ago

Sharing propaganda is never a good idea. The only benefit is to the producers of the propaganda.

simonblack4y ago

Except that: "Who is it that gets to define what is propaganda and what isn't?"

The West is no more blameable or blameless than anybody else.

2 more replies

dane-pgp4y ago

Here's a guide to how it doesn't work:

* 1 point - unlocks commenting

* 5 points - unlocks submissions

* 10 points - unlocks "ask"

* 50 points - unlocks "show"

* 100 points - unlocks flagging comments

* 500 points - unlocks downvoting comments

* 1000 points - unlocks flagging submissions

* 5000 points - unlocks downvoting submissions

* 10000 points - unlocks editing/deleting your own comments/submissions of any age

* 50000 points - unlocks editing/deleting other people's comments/submissions of any age (i.e. mod status)

* 100000 points - unlocks selection by YC for your startup

vanusa4y ago

I think it should be upvoted, actually - for showcasing just how bonkers the CPC really is.

greenyoda4y ago

baash054y ago

greenyoda4y ago

It's discussed in the first couple of paragraphs of the HN Guidelines:

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

pkdpic4y ago

Thats a good question.

da-x4y ago

> The system of multiparty cooperation and political consultation under the leadership of the CPC is a basic element of China's political framework.

TIL the CCP has (only?) about 70% of the seats [1]. I wonder what power or influence the other members have.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_parties_in_C...

seanmcdirmid4y ago

Also paradoxically, given that the NPC has a quota for non-CPC members, it is often easier to get a seat being a non communist than a communist.

lettergram4y ago

From:

> The State Council Information Office of the People's Republic of China

So literally the propaganda office lol

natded4y ago

Some interesting links:

> https://twitter.com/oliverdarcy/status/1468064220843425796

> https://twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1469331084550852615

> https://twitter.com/AuronMacintyre/status/146832775301131879...

vanusa4y ago

This document is actually quite fascinating -- if nothing else than as an dazzling display of institutional mind rot.

So it shouldn't be flagged. It would be a shame if it didn't get wider circulation, in fact.

garbagecoder4y ago

This but ironically.

zeristor4y ago

Check for April 1st?

pkdpic4y ago

Or April the 4th (1984) ;p

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse