It is one of the many political topics that has a strong polarizing effect, which in turn results in hate and anger.
They may not have been a believable threat. But trying to strong-arm more votes out of various places, refusal to concede, throwing around unfounded allegations of mass cheating, constantly, and then the mountain of lawsuits and talking heads... it's beyond the pale.
If they don't see that threat, when would they? Because from here it looks far more like they don't care so long as it's their guy. And that's scary.
The democrats? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGRnhBmHYN0
that's not a gaffe. If you assert it's a gaffe, you must now explain a ton more.
>And then the other side is judged for being taken aback by that? Are we supposed to pretend like nothing is happening?
Someone could blame the media but that's beside the point. The USA is more divided today that I have ever seen it. According to articles ive read, the divide is larger today than it has been since the civil war. Thusly probable that another civil war is coming but oh boy is this one ever going to be one sided.
The US democrats exist to divert any worker resistance into channels they can then sabotage. In many ways they're more right wing than the US Republicans, especially when it comes to foreign policy.
I would have sincere and heartfelt suspicions of those who continued to support that party while this stuff is going on. It's beyond party politics at that point.
For example, Hillary Clinton compared the 2000 Florida election recount to rigged elections in Nigeria. [1]
The Democrats continue to believe 2000 was rigged.
How about something more recent? Oh yeah, Hillary Clinton claims the 2016 election was "not on the level". Going much further, she calls the result "illegitimate", citing hacking (never proven) and voter suppression (no evidence). [2] [3] As recently as 4 years ago the Democrats were doing the exact same thing the Republicans are doing now.
[1] https://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=8314204&page=1
[2] https://news.yahoo.com/hillary-clinton-maintains-2016-electi...
[3] https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/hillary-clinton-trum...
[0] https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-the-republican-push...
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_suppression_in_the_Unite...
Point is, don't think that only one side has genuine concerns about the other trying to "undermine democracy". The whole thing is broken.
You don't have to commit to the other side, nobody says you have to love the democrats and all they stand for, I surely don't. But you can't look at the actions of the republican party over the last year and see them as anything other than anti-democratic and dangerous?
The list goes on and on.
> left injecting politics and other issues (e.g. Trans and race topics) into primary school
I'm not sure that this is actually a thing. But if you have any - reliable - reporting or study about that, I'd be willing to be - hehe - educated.
I am also an outsider. You have to be careful with this. You clearly don't see the bigger picture and it's bad to push the narrative that it was just Trump.
The probability that the election was fraudulent is in question. Biden is the most popular president in history, as per his own words. Though also from his own mouth he has the most extensive voting fraud org. They never quite explained that one.
>It's beyond party politics at that point.
If the election was fraudulent. What was the actions taken?
https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/30/politics/voter-suppression-re...
CNN is obviously biased and is portraying it as 'voting rights under attack' but what does it say? It says the republicans as a whole saw the election was fraudulent and needed to fix voting rules. The republicans cant just say the election was fraudulent and leave the country or something. You go and do exactly what CNN is describing.
No, it's not. There has been nothing but hot air on this, I've followed it closely, there is no evidence of fraud.
> Though also from his own mouth he has the most extensive voting fraud org.
Oh jesus, that was a quote about a voter protection program taken out of context, this is stupid. You accuse me of not seeing the bigger picture and then you use a meme as evidence.
https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-fact-check-biden-voter-pr...
> It says the republicans as a whole saw the election was fraudulent
Republicans saw fraud because their leaders have lied to them, over and over again. They think voting rules need to be fixed because their leaders have, absent any evidence at all, repeatedly lied to them about fraud that they once again, have no evidence for.
The republican party have gone off the rails and Trump explicitly attempted to overturn the democratic process.
I think the liberal label is more induced by peer pressure than anything else. Not saying that republicans are flawless at all, but that doesn't even matter anymore.
How can that be?
> They have problems with media and depictions that doesn't fit their worldview and don't favor free speech because it was a value by people that partially rejected their ideas.
This is completely missing the point of what the younger generation want. They don't have problems with media and their depictions. They tend to be more inclusive. They fight for people that haven't had a voice previously, or have been mistreated. What they have problems with is hate speech, not free speech.
This view is widely considered to be a fringe one. No serious person espouses it. You don't hear it on Fox News, but Alex Jones will say it and his audience will mostly laugh at him. A small fraction of them agree.
On the other hand:
"The only explanation for limiting immigration is racism. No other explanation exists."
"The only explanation for prioritizing action against illegal immigration is white supremacy. No other explanation exists"
This interpretation of the "other side"'s policy is universal. You'll hear it on CNN, MSNBC, late night comedy. Celebrities will tweet about it. It is espoused by folks who say it seriously, framing it as some kind of serious battle of good versus evil. There is no room in the conversation for debating it, therefore you despise anyone who takes this kind of view. Anyone who tries to debate it will be labelled one of Skeletor's minions.
In fact, one of the more charitable explanations of these points of view are things like "unconscious racism" like the evil spirits of old who would possess you and make you think evil things.
After centuries of orthodoxy, in the west there used to be a culture of enlightenment and free enquiry. In the third world we have never really had a serious understanding of the importance of these topics, and the enlightenment movements had a relatively minor impact. There have been occasional spurts of it, but generally there is no mature understanding of freedom amongst the population. In my country a comedian was arrested for allegedly planning to tell a particular joke in his forthcoming standup set. This kind of authoritarianism is supported because there is widespread support for blasphemy laws, and it is a fairly mainstream position.
It seems like western countries are regressing to this kind of worldview, embracing blasphemy laws and the culture of blasphemy where certain "haraam" topics are so unholy that they cannot even be debated, and any infidel who has these views must be removed from society, "by any means necessary". The only difference between this and previous attempts is that the pantheon is some bureaucrats and politicians. I'm reminded of a Stephen Colbert episode where he announced that the President had fired James Comey, and the crowd applauded, and he sprung into action to inform them that James Comey was now on the side of the angels.
As a result of these systems, there is no question of beings friends with an infidel, you can only despise them. Even if one wants to challenge this prevailing orthodoxy, there is fear of being associated with infidels - so for self-preservation, one must go along with this point of view.
There was a TV host - Ellen DeGeneres who is a friend of George W. Bush. When photos of them laughing together and enjoying a sporting event, were published, it became a national conversation about whether she should be held accountable for this friendship. She then had to make a public explanation as to why she was his friend.
This kind of thing exists amongst Republicans too, but it falls flat most of the time. Every now and then there will be a story like Bill Clinton shook hands with Louis Farrakhan or some stupid outrage like that, but it (rightly) doesn't really get much traction and nobody gives it the time of day, because there ought to be freedom of association, and reducing a human being to who they shake hands with is a terrible way of thinking.
>"The only explanation for limiting/acting against immigration is racism/white-supremacism. No other explanation exists." ... is universal
This is wildly out of alignment with my personal experience, which is that of much closer parity between the commonness of these two extremes. Though it's only my personal experience, I think you're being overly generous in your interpretation of instances of the former and vice versa.
This is not even to mention that, in reality, there certainly is a minority of people who overzealously oppose immigration due in significant part to racism, while the same is not true to the same degree (to put it mildly) of people who just enjoy killing babies. The two things are very different in various ways, and therefore it's difficult to usefully compare irrational attitudes about them.
To get around this, one can just monitor the conversations taking place in the national news media and other popular media like late night comedy or some of the more reputable newspapers. You can also expand this to include the A-list "influencer" category of social media users - popular musicians and movie stars. All of these sources mirror the policy positions of the Democratic party. The overall picture is one of a grand moral struggle between good and evil, with all the heroes on the side of one party. In these echo chambers you will frequently find that many of the extreme interpretations of Republican party policies are highly amplified.
The recent verdict against the fraudster Jussie Smollett is also proof of how slanted and devoid of rationality these spaces have become, where major media institutions and powerful individuals could not, or perhaps more insidiously, did not, perform the requisite critical thinking to be skeptical of the alleged crime, despite the extremely dubious fact pattern. Contemporaneous early accounts from more neutral observers were able to quickly deduce and point of the large number of improbable claims in the alleged assault.
The prevalence of innuendo and rhetoric over facts and reason is common in political discourse, but it is unprecedented to see the vastly different standards applied for fact-checking and misinformation based on the partisan nature of the topic at hand. For young people who are new to these types of conversations, it's very easy to get caught up in this imbalance. There was an incident where a woman in a Gorilla mask threw an egg at the black candidate who was a frontrunner for the Republicans in the California Governor election. Contrasting the conversation around this incident with the former one is quite revealing about the way newcomers to these conversations will perceive the status quo - one that aggressively amplifies hate crimes with dubious claims, and apparently ignores hate crimes with clear and apparent evidence.
You maybe mean it is not common there, but the things you claim to be universal on the left side do not seem to me that common either. They certainly are not universal - I lean liberal, if I lived in the US and had the citizenship, I would probably vote democrats, but I noticed many liberals critiquing those views in left-leaning media like NYT. And I want to especially mention the celebrities - I think they do not represent left mainstream (or something that could be called universal); I believe it is the opposite, they are the fringe, they are the extreme living in their separate bubble totally disconnected from average people.
I do not need to happily drink a beer with Merkel to know she was an efficient chancellor who all things considered did a lot of good (and some bad) to my country, nor do I need to find Scholz unlikeable to believe his coalition will be a net negative for our general well-being. What people around me care about is whether their government is capable of solving what the voters think are pressing matters, not necessarily if politicians are likeable.
Sometimes, it is all about trade-offs, even if the less bad choice comes with a crook.
I blame the horrifyingly bad educational system for that; it's hard to have any functional democracy when most of your voting population is under-educated and has an active disdain for scientific consensus.
Human nature, it repeats itself all the time.
Effectively, they are. They may say that they don't like him, but they voted for him in droves. He got more votes in 2020 than in 2016 -- more than anybody in history except the person he lost to.
There are surely some people who identify with the party but not vote for Trump, but they are a small minority. They may not like him, but if they vote for him, that's how the party will base its policy.
Where as on the flip side, right leaning people likely don't have the same conservative requirements for a partner.
So i'm not really surprised at all by the results.
Would you __________ someone who voted for the opposing presidential candidate?
Where the blank is "go on a date with", "be friends with", "work for", "shop at or support the business of"...Important to point out that stated preferences are not actual preferences. There's a pretty good change a lot of them who say they wouldn't be friends with a Republican actually would be friends with a Republican if they found themselves in that situation.
It is a useful tool for politicians. Like other manipulative techniques, politicians who do not use it may find themselves at a disadvantage.
A more interesting discussion might revolve around democracy incentivizing these base, short-term time preference behaviors. This calls into question the popular premise of democracy being a virtue unto itself.
I am not from the US, but for me condemming the way the Republicans conduct themselves is actually something I would expect anybody who cares about democracy to do in the current state of affairs. They had the choice to change their policy to adapt to a shifting demographic environment – instead they chose to change the rules, change who is allowed to vote, ignore a coup attempt, throw democracy under the bus, all while stoking violence and anger.
I live in Germany and the way US party politics read today remind me very, very much about what I learned and read about the fall of the Weimar Republic. The situation is nothing to joke about, it started with treating Trump like a king and then you realized that really a lot in US politics depends on the will of those in power to honor convention. The institutions saved your asses this time, but they won't be able to do it once more. Where is the bold, free democracy that "denazified" Germany after WWII?
Even those who say I am exaggerating here – imagine where the US would have been today if they managed to "hang Mike Pence", "kill Nancy Pelosi". What would that then have done with the way Trump dealt with the situation? Would he have distanced himself from the mob? Or would he have been emboldened? Maybe the military would have had to remove the guy from office? Maybe that in turn would have lead to a civil war?
In my eyes it is legitimate to have conservative ideas about how society should be, but this is not conservativism, it is fascism.
Not passing judgement either way I'm a left wing Australian.
"The other side" in this case supported a misogynistic, conspiracy-theory spewing, authoritarian grifter with a publicly acknowledged disdain for scientific consensus for president that was disregarding any established limitations on his office and was (and still is) actively trying to undermine a legitimate election.
It's hard to be open for "the other side"'s viewpoints when that other sides viewpoint includes undermining the very system in place to promote consensus.