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0 pointsdkersten14y ago0 comments

I agree with everything you said, except for the following:

release as public domain, which means completely unencumbered and free

In general, this is true, but some countries do not have a concept of public domain and so releasing it into the public domain would make it completely unusable to people in those countries. Personally, I would prefer either the BSD or MIT license or something like the WTFPL[1].

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WTFPL

0 comments

georgemcbay14y ago

Re: people in countries without public domain... is that a real actual problem that actually impacts people?

I mean, suppose a user in Nopublicdomainistan uses some software that is released in the public domain... clearly the author is never going to come after them for a copyright violation, even if their local government doesn't recognize public domain as a concept, so what is the actual real world problem they face in this situation?

I just don't see this as being a real problem.

thristian14y ago

IANAL, but:

I don't know of any countries that do not recognise public domain as a concept, but there are many countries (including the USA) whose copyright laws have no provision for an author 'giving up' their copyright. Just saying "I release this into the public domain" does not necessarily do that, any more than walking away from a house you own means you no longer own it. That means that if somebody says "I release this into the public domain", there's no reason why they couldn't change their mind and sue you for infringing their copyright later.

For more information, see this FAQ on public domain: http://linuxmafia.com/faq/Licensing_and_Law/public-domain.ht...

Also note that Creative Commons has a special "Creative Commons Zero" license designed to provide the same results as "I release this into the public domain" in all jurisdictions, and it takes at least a page of legalese to do so: http://creativecommons.org/choose/zero/

TL;DR: saying "I release this into the public domain" probably doesn't do anything; just slap a BSD, MIT or ISC license on the work instead.

nuclear_eclipse14y ago

I think it's seen more as a problem for a) software with multiple contributors, and b) corporations that want to use open-source software. When there's no legally-recognized guarantee of rights to users of the software, you have to implicitly trust that the original creator will not change their mind and sue you later. In cases with multiple contributors, it adds that many more unknown entities with the ability to litigate. By releasing the software under a permissive license such as MIT or BSD, or even CC0, the legal wording is there to help guarantee your rights to use the software in the face of lawsuits.

rmc14y ago

"Ah sure, us using this software is technically illegal, but sure, the original author isn't going to come after us" is usually not a good line to write on your corporate "do we have enough licences audit"

The problem isn't that your might get sued, it's that you can't convince $POINTY_HAIRED_BOSS that you won't get sued.

georgemcbay14y ago

YMMV, I guess, depending upon where you work/have worked but despite working in commercial software, I've had a bigger problem convincing past bosses that using pirated software to do our jobs is a problem than I have had with bosses who were overly concerned about copyright law to the point where it would be an issue in my hypothetical case.

I still think the original objection is more retold fairy tale than truth, but if anyone wants to prove me wrong they can point me to a country where public domain isn't recognized, but random user-written OSS licenses are and the country has any sort of culture of respecting copyright in the first place.

fhars14y ago

There is almost no country in the world where a work by an author that is alive or has died less than seventy years ago can be in the public domain. So releasing code as "public domain" more or less limits the release to the US.

leon_14y ago

> Nopublicdomainistan

Anyone said Germany? The concept of the "Urheberrecht" which many people falsly translate to copyright (it's more of a creator-right) is that you can not relinquish it in Germany. It's kinda like your mother can not "un-mother" herself from you ;)

That's why there's no real Public Domain in its purest form possible in Germany.

> clearly the author is never going to come after them. so what is the actual real world problem they face in this situation

The real problem is: A lack of legal certainty. You can not use PD in any bigger project if it is _possible_ that the original author might come after you.

Schmidt14y ago

In Sweden for example, you can't release something into the public domain.

There is also another problem, you can't disclaim some warranties for customers. So if you could release the software into the public domain, you could still be held accountable for what the software did after being modified.

rufibarbatus14y ago

Due to its language, I'm not sure the WTFPL would hold in court in just about any country. I don't mean just the profanity: it has no proper scope (i.e. it doesn't describe what's being licensed), it doesn't attach it to a proper author or maintainer (which, it turns out, may be a requirement in countries where intellectual property is described in terms of author's rights rather than copyright), and it doesn't specify what kinds of rights, warranties and whatnot the license waives the author/maintainer from.

</nitpicking>

ceejayoz14y ago

> In general, this is true, but some countries do not have a concept of public domain and so releasing it into the public domain would make it completely unusable to people in those countries.

I've heard this in the past. Functionally, what's the issue with this? The person who placed it into the public domain seems unlikely to sue in a country that doesn't recognize the public domain status.

seanalltogether14y ago

Maybe it's possible that some entity within that country could pick up the code, slap their own copyright on it, and claim to now own the code? Probably a long stretch but maybe that's the case.

sukuriant14y ago

Could we get a lawyer from one of those countries in here to answer this? I'm curious of the answer, as well.

thristian14y ago

I'm not a lawyer, but as I understand it, the issue is not 'countries that don't recognise the public domain', but rather 'countries that do not allow authors to donate their works to the public domain', which includes the USA (since 1978):

http://linuxmafia.com/faq/Licensing_and_Law/public-domain.ht...

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse

0 comments

georgemcbay14y ago

Re: people in countries without public domain... is that a real actual problem that actually impacts people?

I just don't see this as being a real problem.

thristian14y ago

IANAL, but:

For more information, see this FAQ on public domain: http://linuxmafia.com/faq/Licensing_and_Law/public-domain.ht...

TL;DR: saying "I release this into the public domain" probably doesn't do anything; just slap a BSD, MIT or ISC license on the work instead.

nuclear_eclipse14y ago

rmc14y ago

The problem isn't that your might get sued, it's that you can't convince $POINTY_HAIRED_BOSS that you won't get sued.

georgemcbay14y ago

fhars14y ago

leon_14y ago

> Nopublicdomainistan

That's why there's no real Public Domain in its purest form possible in Germany.

> clearly the author is never going to come after them. so what is the actual real world problem they face in this situation

The real problem is: A lack of legal certainty. You can not use PD in any bigger project if it is _possible_ that the original author might come after you.

Schmidt14y ago

In Sweden for example, you can't release something into the public domain.

rufibarbatus14y ago

</nitpicking>

ceejayoz14y ago

> In general, this is true, but some countries do not have a concept of public domain and so releasing it into the public domain would make it completely unusable to people in those countries.

seanalltogether14y ago

Maybe it's possible that some entity within that country could pick up the code, slap their own copyright on it, and claim to now own the code? Probably a long stretch but maybe that's the case.

sukuriant14y ago

Could we get a lawyer from one of those countries in here to answer this? I'm curious of the answer, as well.

thristian14y ago

http://linuxmafia.com/faq/Licensing_and_Law/public-domain.ht...

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse