Personally, I'm pro-vaccine, double jabbed and luckily no bad experiences with side effects. But I'm vehemently anti-vaccine passport. Every one should have a right to choose. We all have a unique and complex life. It is not for me or you or govt to decide on things like this.
Never mind the outrageous curbs on freedoms, vaccine passports are likely to be if anything counterproductive. Vaccines work in saving lives. But the vaccinated are being infected at higher rates than the non-vaccinated according to UK govt data [0].
More details and a handy extract of the data, protests, and my views in this thread on Twitter: https://twitter.com/ColinHayhurst/status/1462003898898657291
[0] https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-vaccine-...
There are some of them still in jail, they were snatched from cafés or from home. Some of them were arrested for a Facebook status, or a cartoon. Some were arrested for 'intelligence with a foreign power' (they were accredited journalists). I may be arrested for writing this.
Managing public health is difficult enough even without people forcing their choices on to others.
The most insanely ironic thing happening in Australia at the moment is a small group of anti-protester-protesters calling themselves 'anti-fascists' as they oppose those protesting against a risk of authoritarian powers!
Wait, I was led to believe that the vaccine doesn't necessarily stop you from catching covid, it just doesn't put you in the hospital on ventilators. If that is correct, then the vaccine IS doing its job, no?
Clearly, or at least there are absolutely zero studies to show they are helping in any way. And yet more and more countries are trying to impose them in lockstep fashion.
> in lockstep fashion
A not so naive frame.
How long have COVID-19 vaccine passports existed?
Same reason the media are who pushed the narrative that covid is as bad as the spanish flu. Even though it never was. It has left quite a number of people believing that covid is worse than the normal flu. Which it never was.
I've considered as well, if the media reported the truth. Would our society have considered lockdowns at all? If society knew the truth that covid has lower risk than the normal flu season. We wouldn't have done anything. We know because we dont do anything for normal flu.
Flipside, shouldnt we try to eliminate these things?
I've been poring your gov.uk link and the closest thing I can find to data that would back this affirmation comes with very heavy caveat:
« Comparing case rates among vaccinated and unvaccinated populations should not be used to estimate vaccine effectiveness against COVID-19 infection. Vaccine effectiveness has been formally estimated from a number of different sources and is summarised on pages 5 to 8 in this report.
The case rates in the vaccinated and unvaccinated populations are unadjusted crude rates that do not take into account underlying statistical biases in the data and there are likely to be systematic differences between these 2 population groups. »
Also, assuming that your conclusions are, is that the number we should be watching? We're looking for number of people who go to the hospital, die or suffer from long covid. According to the same table you're looking at, vaccines are a huge success at preventing deaths (I haven't bothered looking data on these other points).
edit Nuanced my response. I believe that the parent's response came before my edit.
I just checked your source and can't find anything to confirm your claim. Just take the latest vaccine surveillance report https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/... and please do tell me where it confirms your claim that vaccinated people are infected at higher rates than the non-vaccinated. I am very intrigued.
First and second columns are shown per 100,000 people.
For ages 18-80 the cases per 100,000 people are the same or higher (up to 2x higher) in the fully vaccinated vs the unvaccinated.
Good god I'm so tired of having to explain vaccines to people.
Vaccines do NOT prevent you from being infected. That is NOT their purpose. That is NOT why they are created. The vaccine would have to somehow physically prevent the virus from entering your system. Not a single qualified, authoritative person on this subject has ever claimed they do.
EDIT: Downvoters, you're downvoting fact. Do you realize this? Healthcare professionals all over the world are absolutely sick of the willful ignorance. Your actions are getting people killed.
"We all need to get vaccinated!"
"But I am afraid!"
"You are unsafe for your community and should be ashamed!"
"I don't want to be stigmatized. Why are you pushing this so hard?"
"You are now required to prove that you have complied to live a normal life."
"This is literal fascism! You are violating my rights!"
The fact that we have a number of unmoderated forums such as Facebook and YouTube did not help. It's okay to have a hide park on 4chan, but having a syndicated stream of uncredentialed nobodies who have just happened to win an algorithmic loterry was not a very bright idea. Especially since some have noticed that inflammatory and/or fear-inducing content is interacted with more frequently.
This might be the most appropriate description of social media that I ever got to read.
It has also successfully acquired user base that was never really acquainted with netiquette of such moderated spaces. Namely the generation of my parents.
I'm just curious, did you happen to pick up that term from Jasun Horsley?
So, antivaxxers don't want to get vaccinated.
At least as many double vaccinated attend these rallies because they realise that tracking via QR code checkin, vaccine passports, manadatory vaccinations or you lose your job, mandatory boosters every 6 months, and the unvaxxed being banned from public life, are a huge assault on freedoms within our liberal democracies.
As if vaccine passports and mandates etc would be used for anything not positive and helpful to the public...
So I hope that these dangerous protests get crushed by the respective governments.
Once you have established a higher moral ground, you have proposed to ostracize THEM from public life, until they become US.
The problem is that they say we are discriminating against them, which we objectively are.
Please refrain from furthering the divide and concentrate on productive strategies to mitigate the situation. Especially if you truly believe that its an issue with emotional regulation, because these usually cannot be handled safely by piling on more pressure.
Regardless of the ideology of the protest, you are demanding authoritarian response because you disagree. Could you see how this could have a very bad outcome down the line?
