It goes like this all the way down until there actually has to be something tangible. It doesn't have to be good, or useful - just tangible. They give those jobs to some programmers. They are smug and think they are actually doing work, but really a programmer's sole responsibility is to give their managers something to have meetings about.
If we admitted things would work better with less worker time, it would start to undermine the whole system, and everything would fall apart. So 5 days (with as much overtime as possible) it is.
Heh, you must have built a real business.
There's a lot of things you need to keep an organisation going. Anything from insurance, contract lawyers, wifi routers, offices, kitchens, producers, suppliers, customer service agents, the headphones and computers and keyboards they use (which all had to be transported). You need all this stuff just to run a small company succesfully.
Having said that, many companies could probably make it work in a 4-day workweek, which I'm in favor of.
Salaried office work may not always be BS but is at least somewhat unclear in terms of output and varies by individual. So if anyone tries to go below our current 5 day 40hr Schelling point there will be all kinds of issues from jealousy, competition etc. Its a social thing not a productivity thing, but that doesn’t make it any less real. We saw how only something like Covid could force attitude changes on full time remote work.
IMO, the 40 hour work week is mainly a problem in a certain subset of high-achieving, highly educated employees, be they engineers, consultants, attorneys, etc. It's their own internal shame mechanisms which make them work 40 hours / week
I also work just as hard as I did when I commuted and have never been reprimanded for not getting enough done, quite they opposite in fact.
E.g. Amazon has 500 open remote jobs in the US on their site https://www.amazon.jobs/en/search?base_query=&loc_query=Remo...
if you're a competent engineer it's just a standard job search
My mother is the same way. She's been retired for many years, but she still works. She sews everyday. Sells some, or gives them away, but it's actual work to do what she does.
My father also has been retired, but keeps doing actual jobs for people. For example, he helped old people with taxes for a while (got paid). Then he became some finance thing in his parish, which is an actual job as well, even if he doesn't accept payment.
My grandmother was the same way too, which explains why she lived til a ripe old age. She never stopped working. Sewing, cleaning, cooking, etc. She was on a strict schedule.
My grandfather was the same way. The month before he died, he was still doing my aunt's yardwork on a strict schedule. The man had the strictest regimen imaginable.
My wife is like I am. If there's nothing to do, she'll start doing art projects (many of which end up getting sold, gifted, or used in lieu of bought decorations).
My brother and SIL are the same way. Constantly working on random things. Often income producing.
Broadly speaking, we are a successful family, because we rarely stop working. That's not to say we don't relax, but even relaxing takes work. For example, orchestrating a vacation with two children is actual work. But work is nothing to be upset by. Ideally, most of your life is spent working.
The main problem with work in American society today is not the work part. It's the fact that you're doing someone else's work, and that most work is not manual, tactile, or creative. It'd be better if more people did their own work, instead of hiring it out in some grand ponzi scheme. I'd recommend reading the rule of St Benedict. This is an ancient idea. It's really terrible, and boring, to do nothing all the time. It's more fun to do stuff.
Again, I literally mean this. As a child, I'd often sit around and complain about being bored (parents didn't buy us video games or movies, and computers were for working). My dad would solve this by giving me manual labor tasks. That is how I solved my boredom as a child. One day my dad decided he wanted a sprinkler system, so that became my brother's and my job when we said we were bored. I don't understand why this should be seen as sad or as working too much. We were happy to do it, and it beat being bored.
I'll quickly point out that while I am American, my parents are immigrants, and my grandparents and they were born and raised in another culture. My grandparents lived the majority of their life in another non-Western country.
I think if we pursue this policy the newly available days need to be normalized so that the day is set aside for personal work.
Personally I'd like to see us slowly ease out of employment and demand that more people work for themselves. By most proposals of a four day week are simply against working.
In the US, we see the ambitious, driven person as the one who wants to work (at least) 5 days a week. We want to believe that outcomes are related to the amount, and not quality, of work put in. This value runs deep to cultural values where idleness is related to sin and “wasted” time[1]. Time spent in economically fruitful endeavors is viewed as important, while other time spent seen as frivolous. Today we see it manifested in startup culture where founders humblebrag about intense number of hours worked, like they’re the true believers in this value system. Larger company execs want to emulate them, hoping their employees show the same “hustle”. Many Americans often don’t even know what to do with their free time!
So in the US there’s a lot of cultural baggage to overcome.
(Of course, this value isn’t held in all cultures, where enjoying the finer things in life has cultural significance.)
1 - https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/idle_hands_are_the_devil%27...
I think this is one of those "my subculture is not the nation" issues.
> Time spent in economically fruitful endeavors is viewed as important, while other time spent seen as frivolous.
I don't know if "frivolous" is the right word, but I know a contractor doesn't have PTO. His hourly rate is high enough he could take 4-6 weeks vacation and still make more than he would as an full-time employee (although that depends on the value of other benefits). Yet he still cannot bring himself to take a single day off because he "needs" the money.
People seeking a second job, or working crushing hours, are doing so hoping to get paid enough to escape the rat race and/or because they need that money to survive.
Actually, I don't think anyone believes that. People want to believe that outcomes are related to the utility of the work you do, which by and large they are.
Few people believe that those who jump and down over and over again in the hopes of flight will achieve success, but most people believe that if you get a pilot's license, you stand a chance to earn some money from it.
This is definitely the main driver. We must rid ourselves of the Xtian ethos, for it is a system that seeks to maximize human suffering.
Stigma: Much like the phrase "remote work" had 5 years ago, there is a stigma around the 4 day work week e.g. for many, it's a synonym for "laziness"
Fear: if a company switches to a 4 day week, most believe the customer output will suffer. This has been shown not to be the case however [1, 2, 3]
Culture: Although it's improving, I believe there is still a culture of "work-hard / play hard" in many companies (especially those which are VC backed) - a 4 day work week is the antithesis of this
[1] https://www.4dayweek.com/case-studies-more/mrl-consulting
[2] https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/nov/04/microsoft...
[3] https://www.theguardian.com/money/2019/feb/19/four-day-week-...
p.s. I run https://4dayweek.io - I've now sourced around 50 Tech companies which have a 4 day work week and it's increasing every week. I believe it will become major movement
which is weird because most people doing 4 days are taking a pay cut to do it - and thus, earning the exact same per hour as before!
Those who say 4 days is lazy somehow don't also say that not working weekends (without pay) is not lazy...
I find pitching it as a “self funded 20% time project” also helps with the negative perception of laziness. I’ve been using the extra day off to learn VR game development and rock climb.
With the way the market is desperate for senior engineers right now you have a lot of negotiating leverage, and salary above a certain amount is pointless. Can’t take your money with you when you die.
The more workers who do start performing the shorter weeks, the more of the remaining workers will have to work more days per week than they are doing now.
As it stands your odds of pulling it off individually are probably better than waiting to see if it becomes adopted by the mainstream.
So there is probably widespread inertia in favor of the status quo.
My last job had me working 10 to 7, 5 days/week. That was too much and I thought 4 days was ideal.
My current job is much more relaxed. Everyone is done by 6 and we sometimes do game night. Management and HR actively lowers pressure, encourages us to take more breaks, and informs us that they've never turned down any request for a day off. Now I'm tempted to work 5.5 days/week, especially when they let me take a day off whenever I feel like it.
The problem seems to be that things aren't in sync. We're not getting enough rest or enough work done; I suspect 4 days is stressful when you have a lot of meetings. Socialising is a huge factor too - I had none of it in my last job, but I'd like more in my current job. I had no time for errands in my last job, but now that they're cool with me running errands on weekdays, I don't need extra time off.
Recruiting, HR, training, etc…
The longer hours take more of a toll on mental health, rather than less.
It's a pain for childcare, trying to socialize with folks on a normal schedule, making up hours etc. Everyone else is working the fifth day, so can't really socialize then. My doctor and dentist don't work that day though, which means can't use it for appointments.
Another important aspect is that if retirement looks into days worked, you need to work 25% more hours to unlock benefits.
