I have long reached the maximum of having to pay near 800€ for public health care in Germany month by month with my salary - it covers me, my wife and two children. I'm well aware that most of the time the money is used for people who pay far less or nothing like retired, students, people with less income or refugees (solidarity it is called). Most of the time until I'm in need treatment myself...
I love to live in a country where nobody goes bancrupt because of a health bill. Where nobody has to live in fear of death if he cannot afford treatment. Where nobody has to choose between money and a dead child or mother.
Don't you see how many social and crime problems come from a missing health system? If I would live in constant fear of death or bancruptcy I might as well easier decide to rob a bank, do cyber crime or kill someone in anger with my gun (only source of fake power in my life) or do some insider trade or whatever. A death threat hanging over you and your family, if you lack financial success, is making you do wrong things (crime) and feel bad things (fear, anger, desperation) leading to undesired behaviour (even more crime, unhealthy life with stress and obesity and much more).
An affordable and solidarity public health system is the foundation for a healthy society and mentally healthier citizens. It has exacly zero to do with communism or socialism, it's an investment in having a better country for everyone.
Change my mind.
Particularly for the last point, socialized medicine is often weirdly spun as bureaucrats taking away your freedom of choice and preventing you from getting health care ("death panels" and all that). So people visualize the current fucked-up system, imagine what it would be like if they had even more obstructive bureaucracy dictating whether you're allowed to get surgery and how long you need to wait in line, and often course they think that sounds even worse -- although the reality is that would be better for most people than the status quo of only being able to get surgery if you can afford it, and still risking getting bankrupted in the process.
First, we have a strange relationship with taxes. The highest amounts are paid to the Federal Government (at the nation-level) and as you travel down the chain to state and then local (city/county), less tax money is owed to these places typically. Regardless of where someone sits on the political spectrum, it is widely accepted that the federal government does not efficiently spend the money, with citizens receiving no tangible value. For example, during the pandemic, many people got $1200 stimulus checks and a "good luck" even though taxpayers fork over thousands over the course of their lives. Stuff that actually affects our lives directly is often done at the local level, with roads, for example, funded by a tax on gas in California (and some federal dollars, too).
Given the perception of how grossly incompetent, understaffed, or ill-prepared government offices are to deal with anything, people are not exactly lining up to have such an inefficient system provide them with insurance.
We also have an accessibility problem in that every process that one must initiate to receive most government benefits, is rife with bureaucratic, over-reaching, and easy to mess-up paperwork designed by people who's goal it is to dish out as few benefits as possible.
Having spent a bit of time in Germany myself, it's clear the attitude is different. Germans (and EU citizens) actually receive benefits from the taxes they pay that are both accessible and tangible. Having medical expenses paid by the state via taxation is ultimately what creates a more healthy society.
Second is the fact that we allow large lobbies and organizations (like insurance companies) to influence what legislation gets passed. This is also so far removed from people's every day life that this sort of non-corruption, special-interest sway happens all the time. Insurance companies have a great thing going on for them, imagine being able to charge whatever you want and be wildly inept and unwilling to actually provide services (pay out) when your customer requires it as per the policy you sold them. They fund (behind the scenes) mass-marketing campaigns (yes, instead of paying actual claims) that spread propaganda about how bad healthcare is if left up to the government.
There are other problems, but maybe this helps see why it's such a big social issue here. This is just my take on what I find to be two major ones.
Anyways I hope the US society will find a solution that fixes this sad situation. It's sad to hear and see such stories and think about the victims of such political failiure (not that such failure would not happen here too, especially the lobby influence an corruption is a thing in Germany - sometimes it feels like our Country is run mostly by special interest). The US once was such an inspiring country, I really hope you find a way to overcome all this.
At soon as you have an employment you will have to pay a bit up to about 800€ for higher salary levels for public health insurance - half of which you never see in any calculation, payed silently by the employer and the other half reduced from your pay check.
Additionally you pay mandatory retirement insurance, loss of work insurance and old age care taking insurance plus tax. (not sure about translations)
So from 7500€ a month you will end up with about 4900€ after all this, if you are married otherwise you pay a bit more tax. If you cannot find work and cannot pay you have all the same benefits, except the retirement will be minimal.
To sum up have social security with this. Every treatment is payed (sometimes you have to pay a little in top, let's say you want plastic instead of metal teeth fixes, basically for everything not mandatory in the eyes of the doctor you have do pay the difference).
But mandatory stuff is completely covered, up to brain tumor removal with the particle accelerator in Heidelberg or so.
Some fine print:
If you and your wife work both pay for family insurance (so up to 1600 together if both earn very well). If one works alone and pays there is only one payment.
Actually you can opt out op the public health insurance as soon as you reach the maximum. Then you can opt for a private insurance.
To sum up again: with all this Germany is certainly not the place to become filthy rich by saving money from your income as employee. But for about third of your salary you get a a) good infrastructure (tax), b) mediocre but ok, bancruptcy protected retirement, 3) no need to fear health issues from financial side, d) job loss insurance for a year (pays on about 60% after that social security... much less like a flat for the family and 500€) and e) care of a certain degree when of old age.
Quite a good deal for me. Still it's better to save also several 100k for retirement. To become rich here you need to start a business, be very creative or become a top manager or politican like everywhere else.
P.S. 5AM here sorry for bad grammar, typos and information gaps =)
But the problem in the US I think is that the society is so divided that it got stuck and certain powers want it exacly divided like that. With a totally polarized 50/50 population nothing important will ever change, everything is a big circus. I hope the best for the US citizens though. If the US continue their democratic downward spiral this all will end up in an even bigger crisis with even more individuals left behind.
Not that I needed it so far, but I get that they can be massive, especially for anything dental. This tends to be funny every few years on routine checkups at the dentist when they try to sell this and that which isn't covered by anything, and I'm like: 'No, just the basics, dammit!'
At least it's not going to bankrupt you unexpetedly
We need fewer "systems."
The American system generates a tremendous amount of administrative work, and reduces the quality of care. If you've ever been in a doctors office, or a hospital in the US, they are constantly looking at the paperwork, not at you. Totally different in Germany. (Which was weird because in virtually every other respect Germans seem to love paperwork!)
Like a fish that doesn't know what water feels like, it dawned on me how stressful all that paperwork is, and how much worse it makes you feel, when you are already feeling bad. And of course in the US any contact at all with the healthcare system is not just painful now, it could be painful for years.
The reason we don't change is because people don't know or believe it could be better. And that, in turn, is because some of that huge money flowing through the healthcare system pays the salaries of professional sophists and lawyers who are very good at playing on the intellectual weaknesses of an American audience. They have lots of tools, but the two most effective seem to be an appeal to "American exceptionalism" - if we didn't invent it then its not good - and the classic strawman attack that anything that isn't the current system is communism. A foolish claim that has no merit, not least of which because none of those same people would assert that Germany is communist.
It's a very sad state of affairs. The US is like a mean old grannie being robbed by a handsome and clever son-in-law who plays on her prejudices and ignorance. Even when other family members try to warn her, NO, she snaps, he tells me you are the monsters, and he is handsome and clever and better than you! There is a villain here, but it's hard to have much sympathy for the victim, either.
1. U.S. health-care system ranks last among 11 high-income countries, researchers say https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/08/05/global-healt...
The whole argument that it will be better with everyone is absurd. You cannot point to other countries examples when we know what the US does. If advocates of changes in the current system cannot fix IHS or the VA then they are incapable of fixing the rest of it.
The U.S. has capable people. The best academics in the world. It's making me sad to hear stories about citizens in such situations and the seeing other consequences.
I thought about it a few times in my life. This is the number wrong reason to not move to the US. Despite all the chances you have there, you could die or go bancupt because of some fine print in a health insurance contract. Reason number two is I don't want to get shot by some (for other reasons) angry citizen for taking his parking lot accidently or similar...
> Medical billing experts who reviewed the case described it as a dispute between a large hospital and a large insurer, with the patient stuck in the middle.
This seems really, REALLY common...an individual ends up soaking up the most bitter aftershocks of a care incident and the accompanying battle between two possibly-responsible parties.
I asked about one of these cases online for a friend at one point, and an insurance industry middle-man chimed in. Not to help out, but simply to become defensive, letting me know that he worked with these cases all the time, and you generally get what you pay for.
So next time pay more for insurance, was his point.
Meanwhile this person's Reddit profile was full of photos of his new Tesla. It made me sick to my stomach to have to tell my friend that yes, somebody replied, and no, it wasn't that helpful, and...let's change the subject for now.
A few weeks after, it was quite a surprise to receive a not one, but two pricey ER bills!
While the hospital ended up waiving the second visit, I imagine many people either pay it or go into debt especially since it required a couple of hours during business hours to sort out.
If they charge $50, insurance will begrudgingly pay $5 if you're lucky.
So you have to charge $5000 for something fairly simple, in order to hopefully get close to $500
No, it's not an emergency room or a labor & delivery suite, so it's a it different than the article on this page.
This is what free-market healthcare looks like: https://surgerycenterok.com/
You don’t really want a true free market. You want a market with full price transparency. You want a market with lots of competition, and where no one in the market can get an unfair advantage over anyone else. And that only happens if it is a well-regulated market, which is a lot like a well-regulated militia.
This system works relatively well and is particularly good in case something goes wrong and you need to spend some substantial time in hospital. And if the worst happens, you get the comfort of knowing that even though your family will lose a part of the income coming from your work, at least they won't end up in huge debts from medical bills.
Doing this all at once might not be palatable to a lot of people. In reality, boiling the frog slowly may be the better way to go here. Reduce their earnings a fraction each year, over say a 20 year timespan. Decreasing the eligibility age for Medicare each year by a year or so might partly accomplish this.
https://ashishb.net/all/why-not-abolish-employer-provided-he...
Other countries don't put up with this shit. Even very small and poor countries have a single-payer medical system with the government underwriting the bills for people who are disadvantaged, thus preventing the ridiculous '$1000 dollars for a bag of salt water' kind of charge.
How come the 'exceptional, indispensable' country, the one that's 'the world's sole superpower' somehow can't afford it?
It can of course, except that Big Medicine wants to have its cake and eat it too.