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0 pointsspijdar4y ago0 comments

Tangential to AU/X and licensing costs, I think this is why OS X was something like a "from scratch" recreation of NeXTSTEP instead of being a straight port. They replaced the AT&T licensed UNIX core with a new open source one derived from the 386BSD forks (and DEC's OSF/1 mach fork), and replaced the display postscript WindowServer with Quartz, both for licensing cost and performance reasons.

At least, that's my impression from comparing NeXTSTEP and early OS X. A lot of the "base layer" was totally replaced, including those troublesome licensed bits.

0 comments

11 comments · 3 top-level

pjmlp4y ago· 3 in thread

You forgot there was still OpenSTEP and the collaboration with Sun, which ended up having an influence on a language being designed at the time called Oak.

Early versions of OS X were still based on OpenSTEP, thus able to run on top of Windows as well.

spijdarOP4y ago

OpenStep was still based on Mach 2 and (encumbered) 4.3BSD.

OS X Server 1.0 was very OpenStep like yes, it used the old Display Postscript server and was more compatible with next/openstep (I think the display servers were similar enough you could forward OpenSTEP software to a OS X Server 1.0 windowserver), but I believe it was based on the un-encumbered XNU, and couldn't directly run OpenSTEP programs due to this impedance. I'm fairly certain Rhapsody is the same, using the OSFMK kernel and 4.4BSD "lite".

At least, I don't think OS X Server 1.0 software would have worked on the OpenSTEP for Enterprise stuff?

lukeh4y ago

Rhapsody was still pre-Mk but had 4.4BSD userland. It could run OPENSTEP binaries if you copied the shared libraries over, from memory one of the ex-NeXT engineers did this for fun.

1 more reply

pjmlp4y ago

That much I don't recall, maybe, not sure.

asveikau4y ago· 3 in thread

It also probably has to do with personalities, and who did what. NeXT was the Jobs thing. So Jobs came back, and they based things on NeXT.

pjmlp4y ago

While killing almost everything else.

The video of the audience heat he is taking for those decisions and how he goes justifying his decisions is worth watching for anyone that needs to go through something similar.

perardi4y ago

Though he did notably compromise on Carbon. The early plan was Cocoa/App Kit all the way, which meant a fundamental rewrite of all the important applications, namely Adobe and Microsoft stuff.

Which would not have flown.

1 more reply

vintagedave4y ago

Do you have a link to that video?

1 more reply

cat1994y ago· 2 in thread

I had thought NeXTStep was always BSD based?

Still might have paid the unix license; this was pre AT&T vs USL, but, thought nextstep was basically CMU mach (which itself was BSD+Mach) + the NextStep frameworks/ui

spijdarOP4y ago

NeXTSTEP/OpenSTEP were based on 4.3BSD/4.4BSD(not-lite) and required a license from AT&T to distribute. I assume that, to be legally safe, they would have scrapped that code entirely and replaced it with 4.4BSD lite, pulling in code from 4.4BSD lite forks like FreeBSD and NetBSD.

pasc18784y ago

Yes the apis eg cocoa are the openstep apis and the terminal tools under openstep were BSD

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse

0 comments

11 comments · 3 top-level

pjmlp4y ago· 3 in thread

You forgot there was still OpenSTEP and the collaboration with Sun, which ended up having an influence on a language being designed at the time called Oak.

Early versions of OS X were still based on OpenSTEP, thus able to run on top of Windows as well.

spijdarOP4y ago

OpenStep was still based on Mach 2 and (encumbered) 4.3BSD.

At least, I don't think OS X Server 1.0 software would have worked on the OpenSTEP for Enterprise stuff?

lukeh4y ago

Rhapsody was still pre-Mk but had 4.4BSD userland. It could run OPENSTEP binaries if you copied the shared libraries over, from memory one of the ex-NeXT engineers did this for fun.

1 more reply

pjmlp4y ago

That much I don't recall, maybe, not sure.

asveikau4y ago· 3 in thread

It also probably has to do with personalities, and who did what. NeXT was the Jobs thing. So Jobs came back, and they based things on NeXT.

pjmlp4y ago

While killing almost everything else.

The video of the audience heat he is taking for those decisions and how he goes justifying his decisions is worth watching for anyone that needs to go through something similar.

perardi4y ago

Though he did notably compromise on Carbon. The early plan was Cocoa/App Kit all the way, which meant a fundamental rewrite of all the important applications, namely Adobe and Microsoft stuff.

Which would not have flown.

1 more reply

vintagedave4y ago

Do you have a link to that video?

1 more reply

cat1994y ago· 2 in thread

I had thought NeXTStep was always BSD based?

Still might have paid the unix license; this was pre AT&T vs USL, but, thought nextstep was basically CMU mach (which itself was BSD+Mach) + the NextStep frameworks/ui

spijdarOP4y ago

pasc18784y ago

Yes the apis eg cocoa are the openstep apis and the terminal tools under openstep were BSD

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse