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0 pointsjasonlaramburu4y ago0 comments

> We have never used this justification to institute invasive laws to prohibit habits that lead to obesity, or to prohibit drug-use or alcohol consumption for that matter.

Correct, these things are not contagious to others.

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8 comments · 2 top-level

CryptoPunk4y ago· 5 in thread

I was referring to this particular rationalization in the grandparent comment:

>>This puts tremendous strain on the hospital system, and if they’re uninsured it means the taxpayers are covering the cost of their treatment.

Given the vaccines can't provide herd immunity, the contagion argument for mandates is shaky too.

mbg7214y ago

The real test of whether all of this is really medicine or politics would be if Donald Trump were making sweeping executive-branch mandates, how much support would they get?

jasonlaramburuOP4y ago

You have noted above that vaccines dramatically reduce hospitalization (and death).

CryptoPunk4y ago

That doesn't address my argument.

1 more reply

ImPostingOnHN4y ago

obesity doesn't put as tremendous a strain on the health system, but I figured this would be obvious

look at the total ICU numbers before COVID (obesity still existed then), versus over the past year, to see the difference in strain

also, your unsubstantiated claim that "the contagion argument for mandates is shaky too" seems to be itself shaky, as herd immunity is not required to make a nonzero positive impact

which is good, because a nonzero percent of the population has tried their hardest to screw up every single covid preventative countermeasure, just so they can say 'oh, guess we didn't/can't achieve herd immunity, so now we should do nothing like we said and did all along'

CryptoPunk4y ago

A huge proportion of ICU cases have obesity as the dominant risk factor, INCLUDING COVID.

And the costs of treating obesity related illnesses, like many heart disease, cancer and diabetes cases, are enormous, and dwarf the costs relating to COVID.

Even in COVID's first year in the human population, when it spread like wildfire, heart disease and cancer killed far more people, and obesity is a contributing factor in a significant fraction of cases of these illnesses, particularly heart disease.

>>as herd immunity is not required to make a nonzero positive impact

Without herd immunity, the virus continues to circulate, until every one has contracted it. After they have contracted a COVID infection, they acquire far stronger immunity than provided by vaccination.

disneygibson4y ago· 1 in thread

There is significant research indicating that these things are socially contagious.

jasonlaramburuOP4y ago

They are not equivalent. There is zero evidence you can catch obesity or alcoholism in an elevator from someone you don’t know. And in the context of workplace safety, an alcoholic cannot show up for work drunk.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse

0 comments

8 comments · 2 top-level

CryptoPunk4y ago· 5 in thread

I was referring to this particular rationalization in the grandparent comment:

>>This puts tremendous strain on the hospital system, and if they’re uninsured it means the taxpayers are covering the cost of their treatment.

Given the vaccines can't provide herd immunity, the contagion argument for mandates is shaky too.

mbg7214y ago

The real test of whether all of this is really medicine or politics would be if Donald Trump were making sweeping executive-branch mandates, how much support would they get?

jasonlaramburuOP4y ago

You have noted above that vaccines dramatically reduce hospitalization (and death).

CryptoPunk4y ago

That doesn't address my argument.

1 more reply

ImPostingOnHN4y ago

obesity doesn't put as tremendous a strain on the health system, but I figured this would be obvious

look at the total ICU numbers before COVID (obesity still existed then), versus over the past year, to see the difference in strain

also, your unsubstantiated claim that "the contagion argument for mandates is shaky too" seems to be itself shaky, as herd immunity is not required to make a nonzero positive impact

CryptoPunk4y ago

A huge proportion of ICU cases have obesity as the dominant risk factor, INCLUDING COVID.

And the costs of treating obesity related illnesses, like many heart disease, cancer and diabetes cases, are enormous, and dwarf the costs relating to COVID.

>>as herd immunity is not required to make a nonzero positive impact

disneygibson4y ago· 1 in thread

There is significant research indicating that these things are socially contagious.

jasonlaramburuOP4y ago

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse