When I was a kid, my grandfather and I tore down some old watches as a rainy afternoon activity one day. I was fascinated. It wasn't until I listened to the podcast Shit Town (S-Town) that I thought about horology as a hobby again.
One interesting thing I learned, is that if you're looking for a career change, you can become a certified watch maker for free. Many of the schools are sponsored by the big name watch manufacturers, and tuition is free. It's a full time education, so you'll need enough financial runway to survive for a year or two, but you'll come out with no debt as a certified watch builder/repairperson.
For me, my mechanical watch obsession started when I inherited my father’s mid-70s Rolex. Back then, they weren’t as insanely out of reach as they’ve become; they were a very robust watch that would Just Work for a long, long time, and which looked nice. (Remember, this was only about 15 years after Sean Connery wore a Submariner in Dr No; Rolex was even LESS upmarket in the 60s, which was a time when very few watches were waterproof AT ALL.)
Then the dot-com boom happened, and I had a little money, and I bought an Omega (which I’m actually wearing right now). It’s a late-90s Seamaster, like the one they put on Pierce Brosnan’s wrist for Goldeneye around the same time. (Incidentally, snooty jewelers do not think you are funny if you ask how to make the laser shoot out.)
There are others, too, but the Omega is the nicest one I own. They are all EMP-proof, spring-driven marvels. Most have dates, but none show days or months. I do enjoy that there ARE mechanical movements with perpetual calendars, though, even if they do cost as much as a cheap house.
About 5 years ago, I fell down the AppleWatch hole after buying one to use while running and biking, and finding it so useful that I wore it to the exclusion of all the other watches. I have a nicer Apple Watch now (titanium S6) that I wear MOST of the time, but several times a month I’ll pull one of the others out to wear. With this usage pattern, they’re all “oh, shiny!” to me, too, which is neat.
It makes me sad sometimes, as the mechanical marvel of watches is beautiful, but in the end, I had a Seiko SKX-007 that needed some maintenance, and I was quoted $600. It was a $200 watch and they were going to swab the movement. That watch has emotional value, but I can't keep it running at 3x the replacement cost.
Maybe someday I'll find a way to wear another mechanical, and get all the health tracking I appreciate otherwise. Or maybe, technology finally replaced history for me. The funny thing is, I almost never would have considered a quartz watch lol.
also, where are you that an EMP is a realistic concern?
in the event an EMP knocks out all your electronics,
is having a functioning watch something that really
matters?
https://www.citizenwatch-global.com/s/support/exterior/direc...
On a more serious note, as a bit of a "prepper" - it's not hard to cover the essentials. Once past that, working timepieces greatly simplify coordination and other group efforts. Additionally, I would expect decent trade value out of them, should the unlikely but tragic circumstances occur.
It’s something I’d like to get into, hopefully with some hand holding. I’m curious what resources you’re using, and if there’s some kind of loose curriculum to ease the beginning efforts.
So I'm likely down the same path as you, eventual "failure", if looking at it as a career choice. But I'm also ~a year behind you, starting a similar path with no handholidng and likely no profit. I watch this guy on youtube, occasionally, and his paid series has been mentioned here and elsewhere, as being worthwhile, but I have not paid for those videos (yet). https://www.watchfix.com/ (formerly known as http://watchrepairlessons.com/ )
Side note: you do have to relocate yourself/your family to the school’s location.
On one hand, you can marvel at how little they drift during a single power reserve. Could be seconds, which is barely noticeable in everyday life.
On the other hand, some others (Seiko 5...) can drift minutes in a single reserve... And so what? In a day and age when we measure everything with maniac precision even during a random person's day, it's beautiful to lose some control and gain back some leeway with regards to time.
I love that it is "about 22:00" rather than 22:03:37.
Just let me collect my tiny mechanical toys, dammit, don't ask questions.
Thickness is always going to be an issue with automatic watches. You can get thinner watches if they are manual wind since they don't have a rotor. Usually, the thinner they get, the more expensive they get though, so keep that in mind. You can get super thin manual wind watches but they will cost hundreds to thousands of dollars usually.
There are few different dial and strap combos, I just ordered a steel bracelet for mine.
It’s a bit thinner than the Seiko 5 SNK803 or SKX007, is a reasonable size (38mm) and the hand wound movement reduces the thickness since there’s no rotor. There isn’t a day/date complication either, just a three hand watch.
https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/piaget-altiplano-ultimate-...
The degree mechanical watches push the boundary of miniaturization (outside of lithography) is amazing.
Also, some of the microbrands are pretty interesting at the $500-$1500 range. I like many of the designs Farer is doing.
Mechanical watches are an emotional rather than rational technology, and hey if that's what you're into: mechanical watches and horse-drawn-buggies and gas lanterns then that's totally cool.
Everyone knows this; you're making it seem like it's some kind of conspiracy.
Mechanical watches are awesome. I bought my first "semi-luxury" one (a Longines Diver for like $3,000) two years ago and I love everything about it: the style, the complication, the fact that I need to wind it if I want to wear it. Everything is so interesting and neat. Everything has so much history: watchmakers were the pinnacle of human engineering for centuries!
It's something special I'd love to leave to my hopefully future kids. I like my Casio F-91W for different reasons[1], but it's certainly not as special.
[1] https://dvt.name/2019/06/03/hacking-the-casio-f-91w-to-handl...
But I got into mechanical watches earlier this year - a Hamilton Pilot and a Field. There is a beauty in the combination of accuracy, complexity and the lack of reliance on electricity that I find fascinating, just as someone can appreciate a sailboat or a record player for their amazing engineering.
I haven't figured out how to express it clearly, but things like mechanical watches, pour-over/press coffee, record players, coal grills. They all involve a lack of electricity and lack of network connectivity. The heat is right there from the coal. The coffee was ground and made by /me/. The power comes from the sails. The watch moves from my winding it - it depends on me. The sound is imprinted on the record - The source of the sound, right there on a platter, vibrating a needle, not from a coded bitstream I can only access with an internet subscription, a computer and a music subscription.
Anyway. There is a better essay somewhere in here. My point is, I get the superiority of Quartz over mechanical re: accuracy and maybe even ruggedness, but there is a lost romance.
Sunshine for watch power is gods gift. I have a minor-brand Seiko mechanical with a self-winding mechanism, love it to death but it loses time like a grandfather clock from the victorian era.
If this had not yet occurred to you, well, let me be the first to welcome you to that particular club. ;) A Lamy Safari is a great place to start.
That being said, I think there is something fascinating about eco-drive movements, or just plain quartz movements in general. In the eco-drive case, you're harnessing the raw energy of the sun! Right there on your wrist! And they're using piezoelectricity to accurately keep time!
It's so simple nowadays that we all take it for granted, but centuries of scientific improvements have gone into making that relatively inexpensive and accurate wristwatch accessible to everybody.
You could say the same thing about people who are into classic muscle cars. "Hey, if like driving around in a model T and braking down every 5 miles then that's totally cool." Everything is emotional. Does anyone really need a GPS synced watch that is accurate to the nanosecond? No, people want it because they think it's cool. Some people want mechanical watches because they think they are cool.
You must be so fun at parties.
Need? Maybe not. Want? Yes. I find it very useful when my watch can switch times as I cross timezone borders or when daylight savings time switches.
My favorite thing to do at parties is to poke fun of hobbies in Hacker News comments.
No it really isn't. HN is not the correct forum for this sweeping psychobabble.
> Does anyone really need a GPS synced watch that is accurate to the nanosecond? No, people want it because they think it's cool.
No, we buy these accurate watches because a) there are only a few such watch makers, and b) they all use an even smaller pool of GPS chips. And its these chips that have the precision that bugs you so.
> You must be so fun at parties.
Not your finest comment
This does not prevent them from being feats of engineering, because of the technology limitations, and the need to show off (ever saw a tourbillion watch?). I would compare them to Fabergé's eggs of our time.
When I dress up, I put on one of my mechanicals (I have three and will probably add more before I'm done). There's just something cool about an intricate gear-driven machine on my wrist, and they look good: a dress watch is jewelry which happens to tell time.
Quartz watches kind of fall into the middle for me. It runs on electricity, but it won't tap my wrist with two different patterns which tell me if I'm turning left or right when I'm driving, and I can't tell it to remind me in an hour to take the laundry out of the dryer. It won't track my heart rate and I can't play 2048 on it.
So, boring. But that's just my taste, I'm glad you enjoy quartz watches even though they're obviously inferior as technology to a good smart watch.
- Apple daily driver; fancy mechanicals for dressing up
- Utter boredom at the prospect of quartz watches
I got into watches last summer. I was watching a watch-repairman on Twitch ( twitch.tv/mr_horologist ; looks like he has been just working on cars and stuff lately. Darn...) which is relaxing and educational. I dug up my great-grandfather's pocketwatch and got it repaired.
After looking around, I did get a Casio watch exactly like you described (actually, no, it's not GPS, it's so-called "atomic" over-the-air signal from NIST, or other sources in other continents), because in the end I wanted it to do two things: always keep perfect time, yet never require software updates. Not needing a battery is a great additional feature.
One of these, the one with the analog hands instead of (ugly to me) purely digital, although those are cheaper: https://www.casio.com/products/watches/wave-ceptor
To me, that's the perfect type of technology. Sorry you're getting downvoted for bringing up a related, by not exactly the same, topic/opinion.
All that said, I still think you get more for your $7,500 from a luxury mechanical watch. The accuracy of a watch matters so little to me at this point, that's it's almost gone negative; I kind of enjoy setting the time every once in a while. :D
Totally agree. When it comes to solar-radio the best looking I've found is this, which I bought:
https://www.seikowatches.com/jp-ja/products/seikoselection/s...
Junghans released a solar-radio version of their Max Bill:
https://www.junghans.de/en/collection/watches/junghans-max-b...
... but apparently the hands aren't self-correcting like the Seikos and Citizens and that would bug me way too much because they wouldn't line up perfectly with the markers.
> I still think you get more for your $7,500 from a luxury mechanical watch
I used to agree and then my mind changes; can't say exactly why but I sold my 2 Rolexes and haven't wanted a mech. since.
Anyhow, all my teasing of mech. fans aside, it's all frivolous fun!
One thing I’ve enjoyed is a focus on just a couple of brands of old watches. I have about 10 Enicar watches; they made everything from simple hand-wind no-date watches (my favorite) to complex chronographs. They have a whimsical logo (a shark jumping at Jupiter) that matches the whimsy of their founder - his name was Racine, but he had an uncle in the watch business with that name, so he spelt it backwards.
I'd take an equally functional and/or reliable Japanese movement over an ETA that is used in the "luxury" categories where you're just paying for the label on the watch.
But quartz watches (~90% of my collection) are way more practical. They last longer (most mechanical watches need servicing every 5 years at $150+ per pop), keep better time, can be picked up and put on without setting if not worn every day and are only like $3 to swap out a battery. The key is finding a neat "gimmick" with quartz watches from quality brands. Things like Tritium luminescence are good if you like field watches. Or Citizen/Casio atomic watches that are super accurate through the use of the WWVB signal. Or "other uses" -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casio_F-91W#Usage_in_terrorism
I have a sexy 70s quartz omega, but my daily watch is an orient ray raven II. I've regulated it myself, so its now about +- 35 seconds a month (which is better than most rolexes.....)
even cheaper are pocket watches, and they are much larger and easier to play with.
I've got two boxes of watches, one contains old soviet pieces from the 60s onwards. Each of those watches probably cost no more than €100, and usually they're far cheaper than that. (I buy them used.)
If you want to look at that kind of thing I wrote a comment here showing the process I use, roughly, to find them:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27167654
Sure my second watch box has a few more expensive pieces in it, but you don't need to spend money if you like the form, history, and utility of the other pieces.
but the most amazing mechanical innovation it has
is a frustratingly slow, whining seat memory function
Engines are roughly 2X better now in the categories that matter: power output, fuel efficiency, and expected lifetime. Some of the fuel efficiency gains have of course been canceled out by increased overall vehicle weight, so it's easy to overlook how much more efficient the engines themselves are.
In 1986, a Ford Mustang GT had a 5.0L V8 that produced 200HP.
In 2021, a Ford Mustang GT has a 5.0L V8 that produces 460HP.
A 2021 base model Ford Mustang has an engine that produces 310HP from only 2.3L of displacement.
(Not that Ford is special in this regard; I just picked the Mustang because they've produced a 5.0L V8 for most of the brand's lifetime and it's fun to compare a 1986 5.0L engine versus a 2021 5.0L engine...)
That's all you need to know about the progress in engines.
I think at the very core of the issue is that mechanical watches are really art pieces at this point. Quartz watches are just cheaper and more reliable. So, if you wanting a watch for the pure utility of it all that's what you should be going for.
And more accurate. Better in every measurable way, honestly. Which just makes me love mechanicals even more.
I'm not saying the mechanical watch is bad because obviously people like them for historical and emotional reasons but there is basically no reason practically to use them.
1. All books by Henry Fried. (A. many books overlap info., but if reasonably priced are work buying.)
2. All books by DeCarle. (see A above.)
3. George Daniel's book.
4. All past issues of AWCI magazine.
5. Oh yea, get Questions, and Answers for AWCI test questions.
(Don't pay a lot for these books, pamphlets. They can be found, but you need to hunt.)
6. Decide if you want to use a loupe, or stereoscope.
7. Yes--it does take a few years to get good.
8. You will not get rich repairing watches, but you can do it forever.
(If you are in the need if a watchmaker in the bay area, in a few months I will have a small shop. The business will be under the name of Jacob Decosta. I'm honest. There will be some very complicated watches I won't work on though. My prices will be vastly lower than factory prices.)
You can message me here--I believe:
https://m.facebook.com/profile.php?id=732457960219638&ref=co...
For those of you of a patriotic persuasion, its a US invention, something they did better than the swiss.
I like them (even though I'm not american) because they are good looking movements, and have some hilariously tight engineering tolerances
They also used to power planes and satellites before cheap low power robust quartz and eventually atomic clocks.
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_Jay_Sussman [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWQN8Yf1g70
The fact that they sidestep the need for a battery (the spring barrel pretty much is the battery) is the clever part here. It's more efficient than using a rotor to charge a battery and run a stepper motor, and more accurate than a purely mechanical escapement. But it's still fundamentally a quartz watch, which turns some purists off.
Imagine if in 10 years Apple Watch would measure your blood glucose and pressure. And what that could do to your health.
And mechanical watches aren't eternal by any means. Servicing a premium watch (recommended every 5 years, 10 years for Rolex) costs about the same as an aluminum Apple Watch.
Watches work in a lot of ways, after all; some are solar-powered quartz with a radio listening to the atomic broadcast!
Also, it appears "How Watches Work" is the name of the series, which would be awkward if another post from the series ended up on Hacker News.
For anybody interested, there's also an awesome video from Hamilton made in the late 40s that shows a lot of the information in this article!