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0 pointsnosianu4y ago0 comments

Well, you make it a game - people start playing. The disadvantage of gamification.

I'm not sure that people giving good answers and help are well matched by a system designed for people who like "leveling up". I think that system pulls in a mismatched crowd over time, too focused on the game goal.

The solution creating a match is supposed to be what you get the points for leveling up for. However, that does not really remove the mismatch, it just covers it up a bit. You _will_ get, at least for a time, a lot of people who focus on quality to get ahead. Over time you will get more and more people focusing on just the points and the levels for their own sake though, who start cheating the system. I think gamification might, over time, slowly erode the target it wanted to achieve, even if/when it starts out doing well.

Of course, all of it happens in a context. Why are there so many people chasing after such fake "power" and "fame" in the first place? Are so many at least somewhat qualified people (on the Internet and with more than basic programming knowledge) that bored and dissatisfied with their local situation to chase purely virtual achievements?

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TeMPOraL4y ago

Leveling up is OK. Fake Internet points may drive some people to weird behavior, but it's manageable at this level.

They shouldn't have entered the job search space. The moment they offered to help their users find work, suddenly those fake Internet points (and activity behind them) started to carry a real (if probabilistic) monetary value.

zem4y ago

they aren't "purely virtual achievements", they're, as you say, points in a game. i can (and have) spent hours at a time playing scrabble or civilisations, and they aren't for "fake scrabble points" or "fake civ points"; similarly here, for the people who do get more into the gamified aspect of stackoverflow, they aren't chasing fake internet points, they're accumulating real stackoverflow points.

nosianuOP4y ago

If you shift the coordinate system to within the virtual system nothing is fake any more. I left the context that I used for the words "virtual" and "fake" outside and with their actual real life at the center. My reddit or HN or SO points don't have any influence there. That it means something right on those sites - does that have to be said?

You get to keep everything that you achieve in your own head, like "having fun" or whatever satisfaction you derive from what you do on those sites. You don't get to take out anything you manage to "create" their though, like your level and points. So except for what you manage to do in your own head it's much-input-no-output, a black hole box that swallows all your efforts and keeps them without giving back. Again, speaking about the "game", not about your own satisfaction e.g. for helping others.

The game is used to pretend to you the rewards are higher, but in order realize that promise you have to stay in the game world because the rewards you earn cannot be taken out.

So yes, within the context of those sites it is "real".

zem4y ago

yes, but people only seem to toss around terms like "imaginary internet points" or "fake points" when it comes to gamification of things that are inherently not games.

the point i'm making is that to the people playing them as games, the rewards are the points, there's nothing to take out. no one says i'm playing a video game for "imaginary videogame points" that cannot be taken out into the real world, they understand that the score is part of the intrinsic nature of the game.

i think people feel there is some intrinsic reward to participating in stackoverflow, or reddit, or whatever, and that people valuing the karma rather than (or even in addition to) the human interaction, or the satisfaction of helping others, are somehow doing it wrong - for them, the gamified aspect is an unnecessary and fake veneer over the intrinsic rewards of the site's core function. which i can definitely sympathise with, and there are absolutely venues in which i too opt out of gamification, or simply ignore that entire aspect of things, but i do not extend that to sneering at the people who do participate.

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TeMPOraL4y ago

Leveling up is OK. Fake Internet points may drive some people to weird behavior, but it's manageable at this level.

zem4y ago

nosianuOP4y ago

The game is used to pretend to you the rewards are higher, but in order realize that promise you have to stay in the game world because the rewards you earn cannot be taken out.

So yes, within the context of those sites it is "real".

zem4y ago

yes, but people only seem to toss around terms like "imaginary internet points" or "fake points" when it comes to gamification of things that are inherently not games.

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