Yes, to both questions. And I still stand by everything I said.

In fact both cases made me form this exact opinion. Being all hand-wavy and haphazard about our business processes is precisely and without a doubt what killed it. The second example was from a big regulatory compliance thing that had taken the particular industry by surprise, again because nobody in that industry can be bothered to understand their own business processes, but cargo cult everything. Managers and domain experts would throw PowerPoint mockups over the fence and tell the devs to "just make it clickable and put it on the web site". I had to constantly fight them to get them to take their own jobs seriously. I nearly burnt out and had to quit shortly after, but we actually released on time and though not perfect, came out miles ahead of the competition.

> And just like data models, business processes are constantly evolving and never done.

That makes deliberate design of business process more important, not less. A culture of hand-waviness is precisely why businesses are still caught by surprise by things like regulations that they are given years in advance to implement. If you don't know where you are, you don't know what you're supposed to pivot to.