undefined | Better HN

0 pointsadrusi5y ago0 comments

Obviously it's not great to feel the fear of death constantly following you, wherever you go. But it's possible to not have that experience while also not (falsely) accepting death as inevitable. I know because I am neither constantly plagued by the fear of death, nor do I believe it's inevitable.

To say that death isn't inevitable isn't the same as saying it's particularly likely that any of us will evade it, but the chance is not literally zero, and by my own estimates, I say it's non-negligible.

It's pretty uncontroversial to say that life extension technology is possible. There are times in the past when people didn't live as long as they now do. Finding more effective cancer/Alzheimer's/heart disease treatments is life extension. It's within the realm of possibilities that life extension tech will advance enough to let us live for some centuries. Cryonics (freezing yourself after death) is also something that could possibly work. It's possible that in the future, we'll figure out ways to successfully thaw and revive people who undergo cryonics.

Neither of these are immortality, exactly. For that you would need some sort of mind-state backup system or "consciousness uploading." That tech might not be available for a long time, but life extension/cryonics could hold many people over until it's available. Many people believe that it's either impossible, or that it wouldn't "be you" when you were restored from a backup. I think that these positions are wrong, but regardless, anyone who takes such a position has to allow that there's some possibility that they're wrong, and in fact such tech is possible and would work as intended. The theories of personal identity argued in Reasons and Persons by Derek Parfit are relevant here.

I think it's important that we don't accept death as inevitable, because if people don't hold out hope of conquering death, then it's less likely that we'll conquer it in time.

I never struggled with an intrusive fear of death, so I don't have detailed suggestions for how to overcome it. But facing up to the fact that you are probably going to die, and introspecting into what specifically makes you so afraid, then taking measures to address it — that sort of thing — will probably help.

Measures that might help, depending on the nature of one's fear:

- Starting a mindfulness meditation practice to learn to notice when you fear death, and learn to dismiss the fear

- Seeking psychotherapy with a similar goal

- Study philosophy. It's possible that your intrusive fear of death stems from contradictory beliefs you hold, and you just haven't noticed the contradiction.

- Registering for cryonics, so that you know that you have done something to fight back against death (this might well increase your fear of death, beware)

- Switch careers to work on life extension technology. When vikings raid your village, you will be afraid. But the nature of your fear will depend on whether you decide to cower in fear or take up arms and fight back. Maybe you prefer the fear felt by someone fighting back.

But remember that death is horrible, and it's right and proper to fear it, as long as the fear isn't too intrusive.

0 comments

4 comments · 2 top-level

polishdude205y ago· 2 in thread

I think death is inevitable in the way that in order for further life to continue, there must be death. The reason we love and experience things and go do stuff is because we know we have a limited time in this earth. We make way for the new just like the ones who came before us made way for us.

adrusiOP5y ago

But then it doesn't sound like you think death is inevitable so much as that it's good.

It looks like you're making two different claims:

1. If you lived forever, there wouldn't be any reason to do anything.

2. Living forever isn't compatible with letting new people be born and live their lives.

To your first point: if you learned you were going to liber forever, would you stop spending time with your friends and family? Would you stop enjoying the time you spent together? I really don't see why you would. You might choose to put off some major life transitions, like having kids or starting a business, but would you put them off forever? If you really would put them off forever, are you sure that it's something you want to do, or do you just feel like you are supposed to do it? Is it a bad thing to let your twenties last 40 years, and only then settle down, because you know you have all the time in the world?

To your second point, I could go on about how there are a number of ways to make immortality compatible with new life, but sure, let's say that there isn't. Then the advent of immortality would be a radical change to the present order of the world. But would it be a bad change? The circle of life is beautiful, but the prospect of no one ever dying ever again is, I would say, good on the scale required to say that it might well be worth sacrificing the potential for new people to enter the world.

polishdude205y ago

I think of it as needed for the species and not for the individual. My and your values currently living have been shaped by our parents and people who we have met. These people have been influenced by the fact that death is inevitable. Our human history has had the inevitability of death looming over it since we went from being non-life to life. I don't think we can judge this based on what I currently would want for myself. My views are shaped around the fact that I can die. And if I woke up tomorrow knowing that I cannot die, I would still have those deeply ingrained values in me.

I'm more worried about the effect on the human species. How would my great great grandchildren act in the world knowing nothing of death or the fear of during from old age? I'm not so sure it's 100% a positive thing and it has the potential to be a very negative thing. Worse than what we have right now.

This is all very fascinating and it's really interesting to speculate though. There's probably just as many arguments in opposition as there are in support.

1 more reply

pbronez5y ago

> I think it's important that we don't accept death as inevitable, because if people don't hold out hope of conquering death, then it's less likely that we'll conquer it in time.

I agree it's important and rational to push back against death even if it's impossible to conquer death.

I think you have to believe that Life is Good, and thus we should want More Life. Life extension tech is worth pursuing because additional healthy years give us more life. That's valuable even for relatively small gains.

In fact, I think the "conquer death" argument is counter productive! Nobody has ever successfully avoided death[0]. If you start your argument with "yeah, but what if we STOPPED dying" nobody will take this seriously. Because even if you're right, it's outside the realm of literally all human experience to date, which is a lot to sell someone on.

Better to just say "life is good, here's some tech that could produce more healthy life. Want some?" Because people definitely want some. Health and Wellness is like a $3B market[1]. Why make it more complicated than that?

[0] Maybe Jesus, but if you buy that one it implies a whole different world view.

[1] https://finance.yahoo.com/news/global-health-wellness-market...

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse