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0 points2pEXgD0fZ5cF5y ago0 comments

Then what about the following part from the guidelines:

> Honoring people's preferences about gender identity includes not referring to them in ways that conflict with that identity. For instance, not to use pronouns for them that conflict with it.

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4 comments · 1 top-level

orra5y ago· 3 in thread

The guideline argues "they" is gender neutral, so it does not conflict with anybody's gender identity. This misses the point.

"they" is indeed gender neutral. But when we talk about specific individuals, we almost always use gendered pronouns.

Hence, as I said, persistently using "they" for a binary trans person is a veiled insult. Again, it's like saying 'You're not a real man, but I am not allowed to call you she, so I will call you they'.

jhugo5y ago

Knowing very little about this issue, this seems like a minefield. I have met many people whose native language doesn't have gendered pronouns, who make mistakes constantly when trying to use them in English and eventually learn to use "they" consistently to avoid getting it wrong. According to this standard, they would be being disrespectful whenever they meet someone with a strong preference about their pronoun, even if they had no knowledge of the preference.

orra5y ago

> According to this standard, they would be being disrespectful whenever they meet someone with a strong preference about their pronoun, even if they had no knowledge of the preference.

No, the point is to use somebody's preferred pronouns once you know them.

My complaint is the GNU guidelines explicitly allow you to not correctly pronoun/gender somebody, once you know their gender identity.

Re non-native speakers, etc, all I am criticising is transphobic intent. People are, of course, allowed to slip up. Hence my use of the word "persistent" in some of my posts: I mean persistent and deliberate.

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buisi5y ago

Using "she" and "he" would be hurtful in reference to a non-binary individual. Non-binary are more common than you think.

"they" is useful when you don't know someone's pronouns, and it's better to form a habit of using "they" for everyone (not just non-trans imo), than to accidentally use the wrong gendered pronoun, which may trigger their dysphoria more strongly.

I'm not getting the notion from this policy that it is intended to get individuals to deliberately use the wrong pronoun, because they're uncomfortable with using the correct pronoun for them. But, if you think it is ambiguous, then it could certainly be reworded.

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