Will docker running on ARM run docker containers from images built for x86? Will docker running on ARM be able to build images for x86?
https://developer.apple.com/documentation/apple_silicon/abou...
Unless they plan to run an emulator inside the Hypervisor Framework (a seemingly unnecessary effort since you could run the emulator without Hypervisor) this implies x86 containers will not work.
And if you're on x86, you can run ARM containers with QEMU userspace emulation seamlessly after running
docker run --rm --privileged docker/binfmt:a7996909642ee92942dcd6cff44b9b95f08dad64
There are already attempts in progress: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25064593
Use an Arm image. For docker, it makes little to no difference
If not, then why expect Apple ARM to run x86?
Yes. There are ways to set up Docker to seamlessly run arm containers on x86 using CPU emulation.
Ideally, they could leverage Rosetta2 to run x64 containers under macOS on Apple Silicon ... but I guess Apple isn't playing ball (because otherwise they would have probably announced it at WWDC).
At this point I see an Apple Silicon based Mac is just a consumer device, I don't think I'm going to be able to use it in anger for development work at the moment (other than for Mac consumer apps).
Not really sure what Apple have to lose here ... but if Macs with Apple Silicon are not a viable dev platform for "mainstream" containers, then that's going to drive developers to Linux (or Windows).
Not everyone runs Docker or similar to do their work.
If it turns out that Apple’s performance claims are true, I don’t see people easily letting it go, a snappy machine is a serious advantage. After all, we are in this deep trouble because of the endless layers of abstraction, so I don’t see it getting any speedier anytime soon for the status quo.
Amazing blank sheets could open on this news M1 macs.
The performance claims are substantial, it could mean 3000$ snappiness at 1000$. A bit like making cheap DSLR and now everyone is a professional photographer, making room for new tools for the new comers.
Mac prices are the gatekeeper for the Apple dev ecosystem in the developing world or students from low income background because most will try to get the best bang for their limited bucks. Maybe it’s possible to unlock it?
Isn't the yearly $199 developers fee a greater gatekeeper by design for people with a low income from participating in Apples ecosystem?
This is actually going to make it easier for me, as more ARM base images will get created.
Anandtech's benchmarks: https://www.anandtech.com/show/15578/cloud-clash-amazon-grav... Here's a tweet about one company's experience: https://twitter.com/lizthegrey/status/1314618333140971521
And by the looks of it, when I finally get to do some project with it, the language specific runtime tools like Project Tye for .NET would already have replaced it.
Saying "didn't want to support" implies that one can "just" repurpose binary translation with a few build settings. You're off by several orders of magnitude.
I want x64 docker on Arm , as this could also be massive for server power consumption. But things take time . If your some wiz kid who can crack this puzzle you’ll have a billion dollar startup within 6 months
As someone who’s published on the App Store , having a single binary run on IPhone , IPad and Mac is a much much bigger deal than most of you realize .
I would have thought that anything of lasting interest would be available in source code and thus ported to run natively on ARM...
An EC2 rival could run the same processes using 30% of the power. Plus as ARM tends to run on much smaller devices, you could theoretically save tons of physical space with data centers.
Docker here is saying their "for mac" application dependencies are not even all working yet.
Unless I am missing something - Apple's Docker on silicon demo was fabricated?
[1] https://developer.apple.com/documentation/apple_silicon/abou...
Linux containers need a Linux kernel to function.
The "different beast" is just some go wrappers.
sudo apt install qemu-user-static
# or
docker run --rm --privileged aptman/qus -s -- -p # (every reboot)
- Rosetta 2 will not be involved at all
- They will recompile the CLI, daemon and other parts of Docker Desktop natively for arm64 (but this has a dependency on the Go toolchain)
- There will likely be a bunch of bugs or general inconsistencies in the new Mac Hypervisor (their dev hardware didn't even support virtualization), so it's unlikely that Docker's Hyperkit will just work out of the box on M1
- The above will take till mid-2021 at the earliest, but should hopefully release along with more "pro" Mac hardware
- Once it is ready, you should be able to cross-compile and run x86_64 containers on new Macs, considering Docker Desktop will still automatically use QEMU to do the emulation. I expect running native arm64 containers will still be better though.
TL;DR - don't buy the current lineup of Apple Silicon machines just yet for serious Docker work.
Disclaimer: These are all just guesses
I feel like it was implied that Apple was doing the hard work here, but now it looks more like nobody was doing the work, and showing it off working was a hat trick?
Makes you wonder what else was "simulated" during the demo?
EDIT: change "was" to "could have been".
Why couldn’t they just write a quick set of native panels and call it a day? Sigh.
Edit: although sometimes you can through qemu.
Here is a post saying that the latest beta release of Electron supports Apple Silicon: https://www.electronjs.org/blog/apple-silicon
And the GitHub issue tracking Go on AS, which mentions that support is coming in version 1.16 scheduled for release on Feb 1st 2021: https://github.com/golang/go/issues/38485
Electron 11 was released today and supports AS, but it is listed as experimental.
Would love to see an experimental docker for mac soon.
It has been since July that you can have developer kits for Apple Silicon. This should not have been a surprise.
The only time I used docker mac ui is to change some docker machine config. If electron is a blocker then I think they can release the beta version without the ui and their users will hardly notice.
Will I be able to build/run x86 (64bit) docker containers?
Will I be able to build/run ARM containers (and without "switching" something)?