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0 pointssergeykish5y ago0 comments

As Linux user the article does not resonate with me. The actual points are discarded points

# Linux is more stable and reliable.

I've reinstalled Windows so many times, never reinstalled Linux. System is separate from the user, I can remove all user configurations and it would work like new.

# Linux is more secure and private.

I have so many packages, they are free and safe. I've tried Windows recently, have to install software from the web. It is scary.

No telemetry by default. I send package statistics, have install it myself:

    # pacman -S pkgstats

# Linux is faster and less bloated

There are many communities, some run Destkop Environments, I run quite minimal setup, boot to graphical environment takes 100MB RAM. Old netbook is router/NAS, 1GB is plenty.

# Linux is more flexible and customizable.

Primary reason I've switched. So many options, it is awesome! GNOME, KDE, XFCE, OpenBox, wmii, dwm, xmonad. Entire distributions — Ubuntu, Arch, Nix and many more.

# Linux gives you more control over your computer.

There was liberating feeling — my computer is just a hardware. Never felt it with Windows, it always had its own way. You know, some people kick their computers in rage. That has gone.

Linux has a great driver support for supported hardware, it is like complaining about hackintosh. Windows adopting command line and package management tools. Yes, had to stop gaming, that's changing with Proton. I find Windows UI atrocious, my desktop for comparison:

http://sergeykish.com/side-by-side-no-decorations.png

multiple workspaces, no decorations, not even browser scroll bar. I'd like to have universal solution for sticky headers.

And, maybe, the most valuable — Linux is getting better while Windows and macOS getting worse. Telemetry, advertisement, walled garden, executable restrictions, firewall bypass, proprietary hardware — scandal after scandal. While on the Linux side — AMD GPU, Wayland, Flatpak, Steam Proton, web applications, better than ever laptops support.

0 comments

TylerE5y ago

I have literally not needed to reinstall Windows in close to a decade.

You couldn't pay me to put up with the massively inferior environment of any of the Linux DEs at this point. They are all, in varying ways, completely miserable to use.

Windows 10 is actually a really solid OS, and virtualization makes it so easy to spin up a Linux VM if I really need it.

sergeykishOP5y ago

I've recently reinstalled Windows for brother in law. System become unusable, quite performant after reinstall. Looks like your experience is not universal. And I can not remove user configurations as I can on Linux.

I've tried Windows 10, it is not bad as consumer OS. Tray notifications gone, so good. WSL1 has limitations, should be solved in WSL2. PowerShell, OpenSSH and winget are good improvements.

Windows interface is changing, at least some people should like it. I feel it is getting progressively worse. That's strange — I like macOS Aqua. I didn't like brushed metal, it has gone now. I have no other explanation but blind spot of Windows users.

hackerfromthefu5y ago

We Windows users just have no rational choice - the utility is carefully tuned to outweigh the annoyances and anti-features for the majority of users.

So we suck up MS treatment of us as cattle whose data and behaviours to be harvested and the dumbing down of the UI in the interest of getting things done and getting on with our lives.

It's a faustian bargain, but the alternative is worse.

I already work on a computer all week, then and spend a lot of my discretionary time on it for career research, for necessary involvement in modern life and for some leisure.

If I fulfil my desire to use linux for all the various advanced desktop scenarios I demand of my computer I'm giving up the remaining free time in my life!! And for what - to tweak driver configurations and DEs, again, AGAIN, for the hundredth or thousandth time in my life to keep things working. Learning how everything works was fun but constantly canoodling with configuration and setup for the nth time is as pointless as working around MS antifeatures, and seems to take up more time on balance if you are doing a wide variety of advanced scenarios occasionally (in my experience as a 20 year linux tinkerer).

So it's not a blind spot, it's a faustian bargain to have some hours left in my life to exercise, to look after my health, to go outside and enjoy the garden and live a wider life.

edgyquant5y ago

And I’m the opposite, always running into annoyances on Windows. It’s that our brains are trained on two different systems not that either is superior. I live in the terminal anyway except for VSCode, Chrome and Steam: so the DE doesn’t really concern me I use the default on Fedora and Ubuntu.

gitgud5y ago

> "You couldn't pay me to put up with the massively inferior environment of any of the Linux DEs at this point."

Sounds like you're using Visual Studio... which at this point is closer to an Operating System than an IDE...

TylerE5y ago

Why do you say that? I just hate jank, and KDE, Gnome, and XFCE are all janky as hell in their own infuriating ways.

PS: I haven't had any version of Visual Studio installed since about 2004.

2 more replies

aliceryhl5y ago

My Linux computer uses a tiling-based window manager, and damn, I could never go back. The workspaces concept they use is infinitely superior to alt-tab.

_hao5y ago

Windows has virtual desktops with Win + Alt + Tab to show the options and then you can switch with Win + Alt + Left/Right arrow. Also you can tile your apps in every corner/side you want or size? I use a 43" Dell 4k monitor and it even comes with software (Dell Display Manager) to manage all these options.

2 more replies

einpoklum5y ago

> Linux is getting better while Windows and macOS getting worse.

Well, some things are arguably not getting better.

> Flatpak

That's part of what's getting worse: Fracturing/deterioration of the use of distribution package management, instead of improving and expanding it.

> web applications

Another part of what's getting worse: Instead of having compact apps you have to load a behemoth of some web browser/app framework, to do semi-trivial things.

There's also systemd; Gnome having taken application UI in a weird an (IMHO) unfortunate direction, and the fact (?) that the hardware resource requirements have risen significantly.

sergeykishOP5y ago

Everything has positive and negative consequences. These are just tools, they provide choice.

There is a need to package closed source software, to provide dependencies. Some people use outdated distributions, that's root cause. If distribution is switching I'd better search like minded and help with maintaining (or it would be systemd scenario).

At least there is application. Everyone is free to make native. There is Void (Linux), runit [1], at least on Arch Linux there is big choice [2]. Fork Gnome, KDE 3 forked as Trinity Desktop Environment [3]. Boot to xmonad — 100MB RAM, Chromium — several GB RAM.

It is easy to imagine arguments against — Steam builds distribution platform on top of Linux, no packages there, Wayland vs X11, distributions spread resources, maintainers breaks software. I am not Steam user, I am not Ubuntu user, but I benefit from wider community.

[1] https://voidlinux.org/

[2] https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/init

[3] http://www.trinitydesktop.org/

eeZah7Ux5y ago

> That's part of what's getting worse: Fracturing/deterioration of the use of distribution package management, instead of improving and expanding it.

Indeed, the popularity of docker, flatpak and hobby/fad distributions and language-specific package managers is leading to many security nightmares and harming traditional distributions.

There are reasons for painstakingly vet and package software:

- security

- stability AKA you don't want to force feature upgrades with new bugs on servers and workstations

- legal compliance: people are unaware of the amount of license issues in docker hub, flatpaks and most distributions

einpoklum5y ago

> language-specific package managers

I wouldn't include those on the same list. It makes sense for various (source-form) libraries to be maintained and updated and made available independently of the OS and uniformly across operating systems. I don't see this as undermining Linux distributions - as these are used when you're making your own builds anyway.

Otherwise - yes, agreed, and it's also about redundancy and bloat when installing software; and some entities writing software that can only run on their own docker image; etc.

1 more reply

duxup5y ago

It has been ages since I had to reinstall windows.

I was a thing I just did once in a while more than a decade ago but I haven't had to on multiple systems for a long time now.

edgyquant5y ago

To be fair this true on both OSs in the last 5-10 years. You can just upgrade to the newer versions so no need to uninstall.

duxup5y ago

Yeah I never really have to reinstall for it's own sake anymore anywhere.

imtringued5y ago

Unfortunately I always got my windows updates as soon as possible which meant lots of bricked systems because Microsoft doesn't test their updates.

hackerfromthefu5y ago

Maybe try to defer them for a week?

I do that, and have had no issues in the Windows 10 timeframe across 3-4 Win 10 OSes, one on canary, err Windows Insider (slow ring).

duxup5y ago

Generally I install as soon as I get a notice, never had that issue.

tester345y ago

>I have so many packages, they are free and safe. I've tried Windows recently, have to install software from the web. It is scary.

If you write it this way (without details) then how people can argue?

What's so scary? I think I'm using 99% of my software from an actual vendor sites and never felt that way. Also using things like virustotal.com.

sergeykishOP5y ago

It was unexpected. But could you feel it without experiencing?

I've used open source OS for a decade. It has changed my mind. I've never downloaded software from site. I trust community, not vendors. I use just one non open source application (slack) and I do not trust them, I'd rather run it in a sandbox.

My system comes with a framework to download, build, install any package with just a few commands:

    $ yay -G foo
    $ cd foo
    $ makepkg -sei

I can inspect it and change it, and sometimes I do.

No other ecosystem comes close. Browser extensions and smartphone applications replicate some of it but

* it can be adware/spyware/malware

* it can change overnight, no one checks

* one gallery by popularity or by restriction

Even my closed source software comes from community maintained recipes, Windows finally got it with winget.

Oh, I know! Compare it with programming language package managers — gems, pip, cargo.

lodovic5y ago

This is actually one of the major annoyances for me in Linux. Each distro has its own package manager and set of packages. Yay, yum, apt, pacman, dpkg, portage, the list is near endless and as each package manager needs a reason to exist, each will try to be different. For simple use cases such as installing a package, this is fine. But for example, finding out how to search for available packages can take quite some time on a new distro.

And having all these different package managers require me to either have blind trust in a lot of different communities, or spend a lot of time comparing CRCs and reading code.

1 more reply

tester345y ago

Maybe I'm kinda skewed because I started with Windows, but I don't feel difference between downloading e.g Firefox on Windows and typing `apt-get install nginx` on Linux.

Maybe because it requires "huge shittons" of effort to try to controle the software, and yet, at the end of the day I still have to trust somebody (OS, Drivers, ISP, Firmware/Hardware, Govt)

2 more replies

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0 comments

TylerE5y ago

I have literally not needed to reinstall Windows in close to a decade.

You couldn't pay me to put up with the massively inferior environment of any of the Linux DEs at this point. They are all, in varying ways, completely miserable to use.

Windows 10 is actually a really solid OS, and virtualization makes it so easy to spin up a Linux VM if I really need it.

sergeykishOP5y ago

I've tried Windows 10, it is not bad as consumer OS. Tray notifications gone, so good. WSL1 has limitations, should be solved in WSL2. PowerShell, OpenSSH and winget are good improvements.

hackerfromthefu5y ago

We Windows users just have no rational choice - the utility is carefully tuned to outweigh the annoyances and anti-features for the majority of users.

So we suck up MS treatment of us as cattle whose data and behaviours to be harvested and the dumbing down of the UI in the interest of getting things done and getting on with our lives.

It's a faustian bargain, but the alternative is worse.

I already work on a computer all week, then and spend a lot of my discretionary time on it for career research, for necessary involvement in modern life and for some leisure.

So it's not a blind spot, it's a faustian bargain to have some hours left in my life to exercise, to look after my health, to go outside and enjoy the garden and live a wider life.

edgyquant5y ago

gitgud5y ago

> "You couldn't pay me to put up with the massively inferior environment of any of the Linux DEs at this point."

Sounds like you're using Visual Studio... which at this point is closer to an Operating System than an IDE...

TylerE5y ago

Why do you say that? I just hate jank, and KDE, Gnome, and XFCE are all janky as hell in their own infuriating ways.

PS: I haven't had any version of Visual Studio installed since about 2004.

2 more replies

aliceryhl5y ago

My Linux computer uses a tiling-based window manager, and damn, I could never go back. The workspaces concept they use is infinitely superior to alt-tab.

_hao5y ago

2 more replies

einpoklum5y ago

> Linux is getting better while Windows and macOS getting worse.

Well, some things are arguably not getting better.

> Flatpak

That's part of what's getting worse: Fracturing/deterioration of the use of distribution package management, instead of improving and expanding it.

> web applications

Another part of what's getting worse: Instead of having compact apps you have to load a behemoth of some web browser/app framework, to do semi-trivial things.

There's also systemd; Gnome having taken application UI in a weird an (IMHO) unfortunate direction, and the fact (?) that the hardware resource requirements have risen significantly.

sergeykishOP5y ago

Everything has positive and negative consequences. These are just tools, they provide choice.

[1] https://voidlinux.org/

[2] https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/init

[3] http://www.trinitydesktop.org/

eeZah7Ux5y ago

> That's part of what's getting worse: Fracturing/deterioration of the use of distribution package management, instead of improving and expanding it.

Indeed, the popularity of docker, flatpak and hobby/fad distributions and language-specific package managers is leading to many security nightmares and harming traditional distributions.

There are reasons for painstakingly vet and package software:

- security

- stability AKA you don't want to force feature upgrades with new bugs on servers and workstations

- legal compliance: people are unaware of the amount of license issues in docker hub, flatpaks and most distributions

einpoklum5y ago

> language-specific package managers

Otherwise - yes, agreed, and it's also about redundancy and bloat when installing software; and some entities writing software that can only run on their own docker image; etc.

1 more reply

duxup5y ago

It has been ages since I had to reinstall windows.

I was a thing I just did once in a while more than a decade ago but I haven't had to on multiple systems for a long time now.

edgyquant5y ago

To be fair this true on both OSs in the last 5-10 years. You can just upgrade to the newer versions so no need to uninstall.

duxup5y ago

Yeah I never really have to reinstall for it's own sake anymore anywhere.

imtringued5y ago

Unfortunately I always got my windows updates as soon as possible which meant lots of bricked systems because Microsoft doesn't test their updates.

hackerfromthefu5y ago

Maybe try to defer them for a week?

I do that, and have had no issues in the Windows 10 timeframe across 3-4 Win 10 OSes, one on canary, err Windows Insider (slow ring).

duxup5y ago

Generally I install as soon as I get a notice, never had that issue.

tester345y ago

>I have so many packages, they are free and safe. I've tried Windows recently, have to install software from the web. It is scary.

If you write it this way (without details) then how people can argue?

What's so scary? I think I'm using 99% of my software from an actual vendor sites and never felt that way. Also using things like virustotal.com.

sergeykishOP5y ago

It was unexpected. But could you feel it without experiencing?

My system comes with a framework to download, build, install any package with just a few commands:

    $ yay -G foo
    $ cd foo
    $ makepkg -sei

I can inspect it and change it, and sometimes I do.

No other ecosystem comes close. Browser extensions and smartphone applications replicate some of it but

* it can be adware/spyware/malware

* it can change overnight, no one checks

* one gallery by popularity or by restriction

Even my closed source software comes from community maintained recipes, Windows finally got it with winget.

Oh, I know! Compare it with programming language package managers — gems, pip, cargo.

lodovic5y ago

And having all these different package managers require me to either have blind trust in a lot of different communities, or spend a lot of time comparing CRCs and reading code.

1 more reply

tester345y ago

Maybe I'm kinda skewed because I started with Windows, but I don't feel difference between downloading e.g Firefox on Windows and typing `apt-get install nginx` on Linux.

Maybe because it requires "huge shittons" of effort to try to controle the software, and yet, at the end of the day I still have to trust somebody (OS, Drivers, ISP, Firmware/Hardware, Govt)

2 more replies

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse