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0 pointsalexvoda5y ago0 comments

Note: all console generations so far had the option of loading software from physical media (even if there are models without this option, they are not the only model). As long as physical media is an alternative for loading software on consoles, consoles are not as restrictive as iOS devices (even if creation of that physical media requires licensing 1'st party development tools). Apple iOS is the only platform where a company uses its natural monopoly over the hardware and OS to create a monopoly on software distribution.

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8 comments · 3 top-level

russli19935y ago· 4 in thread

no, on consoles, the platform holder has to approve every single game to be made into discs. If your game violates Sony and Microsoft's rules, they won't let you make the discs. Its same with the app store.

alexvodaOP5y ago

Those restrictions are made through use of trademarks, limiting access to development tools through contracts and code signing.

First can be sidestepped by not mentioning the trademarks of the platform holder anywhere.

The second can be side stepped through reverse engineering.

Third can eventually be hacked out of the device (like the recent encryption key reveal on Intel CPU's) and was not applicable to older generations.

Proof of 1 and 2 is the existence of new games developed for ancient consoles.

https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/the-unlikely-but-very-real-res...

Someone5y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_signing#Unsigned_code_in_...:

“Most console games have to be signed with a secret key designed by the console maker or the game will not load on the console. There are several methods to get unsigned code to execute which include software exploits, the use of a modchip, a technique known as the swap trick or running a softmod.”

I don’t see how iOS is different here.

pmiller25y ago

"Can be sidestepped" is a far cry from "average users can do this," you know.

1 more reply

machello135y ago

Aren't all of those also true with iOS? Have you heard of Jailbreaking?

1 more reply

mikecsh5y ago· 1 in thread

Don't most consoles require the software loaded from said physical media to be made with the manufactuer's SDK and signed by their private key?

alexvodaOP5y ago

Yes, but this was not always true and even today that key can eventually be extracted like it was extracted on Intel CPUs.

1 more reply

alexvodaOP5y ago

Furthermore, Apple is using their created monopoly on software distribution to create a monopoly on payments. Even if you disagree with me on the first part (platform -> distribution) I know of no other case where the second part is also true (distribution -> payments). Goggle may try to impose Google Pay for in-app payments but they do not have the a monopoly on distribution (F-droid, Amazon, Aptoid, etc. exist).

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse

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8 comments · 3 top-level

russli19935y ago· 4 in thread

alexvodaOP5y ago

Those restrictions are made through use of trademarks, limiting access to development tools through contracts and code signing.

First can be sidestepped by not mentioning the trademarks of the platform holder anywhere.

The second can be side stepped through reverse engineering.

Third can eventually be hacked out of the device (like the recent encryption key reveal on Intel CPU's) and was not applicable to older generations.

Proof of 1 and 2 is the existence of new games developed for ancient consoles.

https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/the-unlikely-but-very-real-res...

Someone5y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_signing#Unsigned_code_in_...:

I don’t see how iOS is different here.

pmiller25y ago

"Can be sidestepped" is a far cry from "average users can do this," you know.

1 more reply

machello135y ago

Aren't all of those also true with iOS? Have you heard of Jailbreaking?

1 more reply

mikecsh5y ago· 1 in thread

Don't most consoles require the software loaded from said physical media to be made with the manufactuer's SDK and signed by their private key?

alexvodaOP5y ago

Yes, but this was not always true and even today that key can eventually be extracted like it was extracted on Intel CPUs.

1 more reply

alexvodaOP5y ago

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse