It started out of curiosity while in my meditation conscious living mood about a year ago, but ended up something I exercise daily since it just feels good to me.
Most notably I noticed that my legs where no more chilly or sweaty with no reason and that my hands are not as cold all the time they where before. As for breathing I noticed that I am much more relaxed on the days I do it then I don't but can't attest to weather this is just some placebo effect or not.
And I notice that I feel much less fly like effects than previous years or if they appear they last no longer than half a day.
From the article:
ii) During the training, subjects voluntarily exposed themselves to cold in several ways: standing in the snow barefoot for up to 30 min and lying bare chested in the snow for 20 min; daily dipping/swimming in ice-cold water (0–1 °C) for up to several minutes (including complete submersions); and hiking up a snowy mountain (elevation: 1,590 m) bare chested, wearing nothing but shorts and shoes at temperatures ranging from −5 to −12 °C (wind chill: −12 to −27 °C).
These tasks sound so extraordinary to me, to the point where it is hard for me to believe there are not negative consequences. I mean, frostbite is a real thing. What about hypothermia? It seems there are serious risks to just going out and doing these things. I'm fascinated by Wim Hof but it seems the risks are not getting enough attention, unless the risks don't really exist, in which case there are a lot of myths out there.
There are people who do his breathing technique and breath hold until they pass out too. Again, this is usually not damaging (from what I’ve read) if you’re somewhere safe, but you’re right that people miss the point and end up doing potentially dangerous things as a result.
Not exactly an awesome super power, but I have found that it's helpful for cooling the body when I'm excessively hot during particularly strenuous yoga asana practice (back when practicing around other people in hot rooms was a thing).
Note: In meditation practice piloerection is part of what is generally referred to as pīti.
...But I have retained the piloerection ability, which I can do on command within 2-5 seconds or so. There's also some weird sensations in my sinuses I can trigger... it feels like the tissues contracting or something, not sure what it actually is, but that's what it feels like. ...And I regularly cry now at sad things, like movies and stories and the like. I used to never cry. Not like I was holding it in, but like, it just didn't happen.
I picked it back up about a decade later and found some texts really helpful that I'd recommend to anyone working at a meditation practice:
- "The Other Shore" by Thich Nhat Hanh
- "Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind" by Shunryū Suzuki
- "Zen Training" by Katsuki Sekida
There are of course tons of others, but better to start with fewer than an overwhelming collection of things when getting situated.
Also, yeah, the sinuses thing is weird and was also surprising when I started noticing it!
Edit: Also, a physical yoga asana practice really brought me a whole lot deeper into my meditation practice. Find a teacher you connect with. Typically yoga studios that have "Mysore" or "Hatha" practices on their schedules will be teaching something that isn't just calisthenics. That'd be enough to open the doors and get going.
How quickly can you trigger it?
I've experienced something similar but it takes long time to arrive, at least 5-10 minutes, I wonder if with practice you found exactly the state that triggers it and you can do it instantly.
Also, have you felt it as in waves going up and down? or just located in same place ?
And lastly, does it have any health utility?
Immediately with a breath (as in start inhaling, it happens). Without a breath, maybe 5 seconds or so?
- Also, have you felt it as in waves going up and down? or just located in same place ?
It's all over the body, although I can focus on just one part of the body and do it there, but that takes me a little longer. (We're still talking about seconds here though. Maybe 20?)
- And lastly, does it have any health utility?
Maybe? Haha, hard to say. If anything probably indirectly, since this has come from a meditation practice, and meditation itself has numerous documented/studied health benefits.
Feels odd but LSD is a good tool for this stuff.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-micturition_convulsion_sy...
One thing that compelled me to look into it was how little he seems to want money for his efforts. I mean, he makes money off of his name, but the iOS app for example is well made, helpful, and costs something like $2 CAD for advanced features. Admittedly the features are not exceptionally advanced, but I was expecting a higher price tag. It seemed like a reasonable ‘cover dev costs’ fee.
He’s on some podcasts of course, and you can get a decent sense for what he’s like. My creep meter doesn’t go off much with him, personally.
For what it’s worth, I’ve been using (and enjoying) wim hof techniques for a while and my assessment is definitely biased.
I left this comment earlier because it seems like there are genuine risks to this sort of thing, but I must be wrong since no one is highlighting them:
A couple good resources for you to check out if you're interested. Scott Carney does the best job of dispelling Wim as his original intent was to basically shine the light on Wim's snake oil in "What Doesn't Kill Us" [0] (spoiler: that is not the end result). Scott recently released a new book called "The Wedge" [1] that incorporates some of Wim but a lot of other practices and people that fit into the idea that we have more control than we realize and getting out of our comfort zone has healthful benefits. Being in 100% climate controlled perfect environments doesn't always help us. The other one I'd recommend is James Nestor's new book called "Breath" [2].
[0] https://www.scottcarney.com/what-doesnt-kill-us [1] https://www.scottcarney.com/the-wedge [2] https://www.mrjamesnestor.com/breath/
While participants replaced the cold exposure element with a cold shower after they went home from the training, the techniques still took 2-3 hours per day. Also on the day of the data collection, they performed the techniques right before being exposed to E coli, so they had "advance warning" as it were.
Still very cool to see the immune system changes observed, since that's rare, but definitely requires a commitment to produce it in its current format.
I do the techniques daily and have for a few years. Total time out of my day is no more than 20 minutes (increased show length and breathing exercises). 2-3 hours is not required. While that may have been part of the study - just my observation from personally using the method for a longer period of time.
Yoga's actual name is ashtanga yoga which means it has eight limbs[1]. Contrary to popular belief Yoga is not about just twisting your body into weird poses. That aspect is called ASANA and what Wim Hof claims as his discovery is called pranayama which is a fully developed science of breath control practices by Sadhus and monks for centuries.
YAMA – Moral disciplines
NIYAMA – Positive duties
ASANA – Posture
PRANAYAMA – Breathing techniques
PRATYAHARA – Control over senses
DHARANA – Focused concentration
DHYANA – Meditative absorption
SAMADHI – Enlightenment
I think there is strong bias going on here in the comments. Two of the comments mentioning yogic origins of this practice are dead. So I present 2 videos as an example. First video[2] was captured by Indian soldier in -45 degree temperatures of himalayan border. Second video[3] captures another sadhu who lives naked under snow without any protective gears
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashtanga_(eight_limbs_of_yoga)
[1] https://youtu.be/8Xbi4Qrf9mE
[2] https://youtu.be/FcUdEkPa-2c
EDIT: Second video added.
EDIT 2: Major edit explaining yogic origins of this practice.
I'm curious why you called it a "science". It would be very interesting to see yoga developed with a scientific approach.
Yoga is all about living in harmony. Some parts of it like Asanas, and Pranayama can be measured as it impacts the physical body. I have no problem with Wim taking a part of it and popularizing it but in not admitting to its sources he is preventing from others making further discoveries of the list of techniques available. What he is teaching is just one of paranayama technique from a list of many.
I do not doubt his achievements and commitment to excellence.
> Yet he presents it as if he "discovered" it. This is pure intellectual dishonesty.
You might want to contemplate your accusatory nature on this topic as part of your practice.
Yes it is possible but highly unlikely. He himself claims practising yoga for years. How do you justify him never coming across eight parts of Yoga? Moreover on his website he admits similarities with Buddhist meditation but reluctantly[1] and justifies by claiming of "stripping the religious aspects" just like you.
so as far as religious trappings are concerned, Hinduism and Buddhism aren't religions in Abrahmic sense. There is no creed to be followed, there are no prophets, and you don't have to follow commandments to achieve eternal bliss in after life. Buddhism and Jainism don't even have gods per say.
Word Dharma comes from Sanskrit root dhri, which means maintains the stability and harmony of self, society, environment, and universe. This means there are no prohibitions but only principles to be followed to maintain the balance. Depending upon the situation same principle might suggest diametrically opposite actions.
> In the intervention group, practicing the learned techniques resulted in intermittent respiratory alkalosis and hypoxia resulting in profoundly increased plasma epinephrine levels. In the intervention group, plasma levels of the anti-inflammatory cytokine IL-10 increased more rapidly after endotoxin administration, correlated strongly with preceding epinephrine levels, and were higher. Levels of proinflammatory mediators TNF-α, IL-6, and IL-8 were lower in the intervention group and correlated negatively with IL-10 levels. Finally, flu-like symptoms were lower in the intervention group.
Sounds like the research is promoting third eye meditation rather than measuring the contribution of each specific technique. Hyperventilation followed by breath holding is what free divers do. Immersion in ice cold water is extremely unpleasant and non-trivial for most people to do regularly. I wonder how the degree of inflammatory response using this technique compares to typical activities like strenuous exercise.
Just a quick note that it is not common to hyperventilate when free diving since it is extremely dangerous.
Hyperventilating makes it difficult to feel the amount of CO2 (and consequently oxygen) remaining in your body and easily leads to black-outs.
No kidding, living in Australia as I do, sometimes even our cold water taps are hot. I would have to produce or buy ice for an ice bath every day. With electricity prices as high as they are, it is not viable.
That's something to consider.
Furthermore we can apply `Why?` to the widely accepted belief in the axiom that our identity begins and ends at the thin layer of air that separates our flesh from the "outside" world. We can see that there is no reason for this belief other than that we have been caught up in the memeplex that we are separate individuals for so long.
What are the repercussions of that? Does that imply, for instance, bending spoons with our mind could be a thing? I mean, if our identity extends beyond this flesh and can be aligned with the will of the universe, then maybe that's a thing. Maybe that's a thought we can entertain.
It's becoming apparent that our consciousness can extend further than we previously believed. We can manipulate systems of our own bodies with our will that we previously thought were 100% in control of us.
When presented with a consensus belief in our limits of awareness and willpower, Wim Hof asks `Why?`, and is able to extend his control further.
I'm excited to see how far we will push our abilities as portals for the universe to see itself through.
Wim Hof believes in the scientifically observable ability of the human body when it is put into a primed oxygenated state. Full stop. That's it.
Your comment only serves to muddy the water and confuse anyone who may be casually interested in WH.
If by "we" you mean the mainstream western world, then you are correct. However, the notion that consciousness extends, or can extend, further than our minds and bodies, has been known and practiced upon for thousands of years.
On a tangent, I've personally thought about the "infinite cycle of why" a lot and have come to the conclusion that: 1) like you point out, there is no final why, which technically means there is no "real why" for anything at all, only whatever we accept at the moment as the answer, and 2) we are addicted to using language/words - which are useful but imperfect and incomplete tools to communicate things that are impossible to fully describe with them, like feelings, experiences and consciousness, this leads to innumerable problems as inevitably pretty much every message uttered by anyone is distorted into an almost invisible game of telephone.
https://podcastnotes.org/found-my-fitness/found-my-fitness-p...
https://podcastnotes.org/found-my-fitness/found-my-fitness-p...
Also this episode of James Nestor discussing breathing on the Joe Rogan Podcast may be of interest:
https://podcastnotes.org/joe-rogan-experience/joe-rogan-expe...
(Disclosure, I work on Podcast Notes)
It would be nice to know if the changes primarily stemmed from one of the interventions they explored. Could I achieve the same results with one of the three methods for example?
I don't see why the researchers would lump all three treatments together into the intervention group.
There is this, seems to suggest cold exposure: https://physoc.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.14814/phy2...
> These results could have important implications for the treatment of conditions associated with excessive or persistent inflammation, such as autoimmune diseases.
Because there are a lot of confounds in making causal inferences. I hope they will they do a larger N study..
Sample size seems small because Wim wants to hide his sources. See my other comment[1].
Learning from the original source is always better and will yield way more benefits including 'psychic' abilities if you're that way inclined http://www.yogebooks.com/english/atkinson/1903sciencebreath....
I am on and off a long-term meditator (for about a year I was meditating as much as 2 hours a day). Some people don't achieve deeper states of calm and contentedness, in spite of meditating often (I've encountered this among serious practitioners of zen, for example; this happens to me sometimes, too) and I strongly suspect that lowering HRV would help.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5882295/
https://www.firstbeat.com/en/science-and-physiology/heart-ra...
Then I gave it to my dad, who has been an ER doctor for 40 years but has no knowledge of or experience with meditation. Within seconds, his calmness graph plummeted to the minimum value (lower = better) and flatlined. There was a brief spike in attention when the dishwasher changed cycles in the other room, then it cratered again. He just nonchalantly explained that he can control his heart rate to calm himself down, which sounds like a superpower to me.
Needless to say, Apple Watch Series 6 doesn't seem to have this feature and I assume that the accuracy was an issue as off the shelf pulse-oximeters which claim to measure both SpO2 and breath rate do a bad job at the latter.
[1]https://needgap.com/problems/155-make-me-breathe-properly-he...
Nestor lost me when he started into the acidic diet, which has (IIRC) been resoundingly refuted.
I'd suggest to check out Anuloma-Viloma, Kapalbhati, and Bhastrika. All amazing Pranayama methods and breathing exercises.
Anuloma-Viloma is very easy and very powerful, helps reducing anxiety and stress levels.
This paper tests his method, discussing his performance in a citation, and was conducted by a dutch team.
outside online has a profile of him right now, for example: https://www.outsideonline.com/2417379/wim-hof-method
I wonder what the press is about. PNAS is the real deal, anyway, but Wim Hof makes me update my priors a bit in favor of "this might be woo, watch out!"
The tragedy is that many Hindus / Indians themselves ridicule this ancient science in Ayurveda, Yoga etc, but when the same is circulated back in English or foreign context, they accept it & in many cases without asking for any evidence whatsoever. It shows a very low esteem on the part of some Indians. Why, it is not very clear.
Does it basically mean that the confidence intervals are way wider than we'd expect with a larger study size? If so, by how much?
