Obviusly, this depends on the situation and use-case. Thus, I will give describe my situation. The company I work for gave me a 13" MBP that has deceng juice to get my work done (mainly writing docx and LaTeX, using SSH for remote access to Linux servers and workstations). And I am also alowed to use it for private purposes, so I also use it for my side-projects (Python and Xcode projects mainly). Now comes the catch. I'm also musician using Logic. And here the MBP struggles having only 4 Cores. So, my plan was to buy an decent iMac and use it for the next 6+ years. I wanted to buy the i9 CPU and 512GB SSD and upgrade the RAM myself. And after all the years, the iMac would be upgradable (to some degree). But these options are now gone, I think. macOS will certainly not be supported for 6+ years (assuming a similar timeline as during the last transition). So if I buy one now, in the near future I will have a really expensive Linux worstation.
And there is also the question if (i)Macs with Apple Silicon will be upgradeable. CPUs surely not, but I am afraid RAM and storage won't be upgradable neither.
So, what is you take on this problem? Would you buy or not? If, why?
I had to downgrade to Mojave but how long is that actually going to work. Stuff moves too fast on Apple. I can install old deprecated software and Windows and it boots up just fine. Cakewalk Project 5 for example and load up projects that are 15 years old. All of the old Cakewalk VST's still work fine on Windows but stopped working on Mac at Yosemite. It's just pitiful. If I wasn't a mobile developer I would have dropped Mac in a heartbeat.
So this seems like a great time to get the latest Intel Mac. By the time you're ready to replace it, Apple will be past iteration #1 of the ARM Macs, hopefully well past it.
The first iPhone had a fixed function graphics pipeline and 2G cellular service. Unsuitable for the native application market that they set up afterward and changing cellular capabilities and customer expectations.
The first iPad was similarly very constrained, though slightly better. For all practical purposes, it was a blown up iPhone 4.
I suspect, given the general advancements and recent stability in Apple's ARM SOCs, that this first generation of hardware will be good, though maybe a bit underpowered compared to what people are used to with the Intel equivalent. But not the practically beta level of those other devices.
First, I generally would wait to see how the Apple Silicon laptops do in the real world. I'm sure they will eventually be very great, but I wouldn't buy the first generation just the same as I would not immediately upgrade to a new version of OSX/macOS.
Let the bugs get worked out, let other vendors pick up their own support for it, then take a look at if it's worth investing in.
Second, even if Apple drops all support tomorrow for their Intel line, you still have a working setup that can take you through at least 3+ years of use before needing an upgrade, including software (Brew, MacPorts). Your DAW won't immediately stop working. SSH won't stop working. There are still companies that let you download older versions of their software (Cubase, for instance). If another big Heartbleed-like issue is found, get the update from HomeBrew and set your PATH to use those binaries instead of the default ones.
Lastly, your Intel Mac is still a computer. You can install Linux or Windows and get extra use out of it.
Both fans are running loud enough to notice: 2600RPM, about 27%, and that's about average when it's not asleep. It's too loud to watch a quiet movie without headphones.
If I had full control of my kit, I would seriously consider ditching the 16" MBP in favor of a 27" iMac just in the hope that the cooling system isn't a complete disaster.
As for the ARM question, I am very much looking forward to buying an ARM Macbook Air (or whatever) for personal use.
But since I have no idea exactly when one will show up that does what I need; and since I expect the Intel Macs to be supported for many years to come; and since especially for a desktop it's also quite nice with other OS's; I wouldn't hesitate to buy an Intel Mac if I needed one.
Just not the damned 16" MacBook Ventilator.
Also, turbo boost switcher has dramatically improved thermals. Turning off turbo shaves like 10C off low usage temp without much of an impact on usability.
It runs hot as hell and has some serious charging/graphics issues.
My company has issued about 40 of them, about about 12 have had to be returned to apple for graphics problems.
Seems to play nicer with my other (Dell) monitor but when I was using Garage Band (only on the external monitor!) it got so loud I had to quit GB and let it cool down... and I still never went over about 20% CPU. The fans are pretty normal when I only use the built-in monitor, but the case still gets way too hot to rest on my legs.
I'll try the right side power, thanks for the tip!
Unfortunately despite some temporary relief nothing solved the problem and I remain at 2800 RPM with 93% idle CPU, though now without TurboBoost! :-)
On the positive side, the offending MBP now has its apple-face to the wall and the fans seem slightly quieter that way. Next I will look into locking it in a refrigerated safe.
Something to do with Thunderbolt proximity sensor, problem went away as soon as I would switch to the left side.
As I commented above on another similar suggestion -- power on right and monitor on left appears to be the trick.
- Do you want/need a Mac? - Can you afford the one you want?
People agonize over this way too much.
I did a few months ago. My trusty 2013 MBP finally was wearing out. I needed a new MBP and the new 16in has rolled back some of the previously objectionable changes (keyboard, restored escape key). I could afford it (but whew I’ll admit that was a big number).
I only work on MacOS. I have a Windows desktop for games but despite the hardware being high quality, I can’t ever be productive on a Windows environment.
You just have to decide if you need it and buy it.
I have that same feeling.
At Uni we had to alternate between coding in SSH on Redhat machines for one class, and writing .NET programs in other classes.
While both are workable, something just felt foreign about development or DB management on Windows (even with great tools like Visual Studio).
I attribute this to knowing more about the inner workings of *nix compared to Windows, where things such as registry, services, etc. felt more like black-box magic compared to having config files, cron jobs, daemons, etc.
Apple gets many things right the first time around e.g many people ragged on Apple's FaceID but I think it's pretty successful in the /mobile facial recognition space/. We in the tech community are often reminded not to buy the first-generation of anything due to the inherit bugs/issues/stability so it's been very perplexing to me as to why people want to jump on being the first movers for ARM based macs. I understand that Apple has moved from PPC to Intel (and in under their two year goal) but that was a different Apple, different organization, and different leadership.
One point I may have missed point out more clearly: The 6+ years I plan to use this thing is also due to environmental considerations.
First, I am a big advocate of the right to repair. I think it is consumer-friendly and more sustainable. One of my Apple Silicon concerns is, that the new Macs won't be as repair-friendly as the current generation. MacBook are already not repairable at all, I guess this trend will continue to the Desktop lineup (except the Mac Pro maybe).
Second, almost all my devices eventually have a second live, sometimes even a third live. My first MacBook (first white Intel MacBook) was used by my wife for 3 years after I used it 5 years. Then the plastic body started to fall apart, so I sold it on eBay for a decent price. My first Mac Mini (2,1) was used for about 6 years. Then, I upgraded the 32-bit Core Duo CPU to a 64-bit Core2Duo, got 4 GB RAM and a SSD. I patched EFI to support 64-bit OS and the Mac Mini runs as a little home-server (Pi-Hole, Time Machine, Nextcloud). And finally, my 2011 15" MacBook Pro still runs Catalina (thanks to DosDude's Catalina Patcher tool). This is were currently my music production and recording happens (yes, really!). This machine has still more juice than the new 13" MBP.
So, the point is, however, I want run macOS as long as possible on this machine and then give it a second live (what ever it will be then). And I'm afraid this will be a problem because either a) (if I buy Intel) macOS will drop support for Intel in 5-ish years or b) (if I wait for Apple Silicon) the iMac won't be upgradable and everything glued and soldered to the max, which also makes repairs impossible.
Do you have any thoughts on this matter?
And what I can read from your comments is a) Don't hesitate if you need/can afford/can live with macOS and b) it's probably time to leave the Apple ecosystem. Anyways, you gave good points to think about, thanks a lot!
If it was for me, I would wait for the Apple Silicon. I use a three year old MacBook, love it, and I was happy to hear that Apple may start selling that form factor again with Apple Silicon.
I do most of my development on a remote VPS that is much more powerful than my MacBook but I still do sometimes use IDEs so an iPad Pro or ChromeBook won't do it for me. I also have a System76 Linux laptop that is great.
It will take time to understand how good silicon macbooks are.
So, 2 years to release, plus 1-2 years to understand how good it is, and how fast all the apps will be fully migrated.
My first Mac was a Mac Plus. It was old when I bought it. My first new Mac was PowerPC 6100. Then a G4 Mac. Both of those were pretty much obsoleted by Apple so fast I had no choice but to purchase a new one, and then all the software I used that wouldn't run on them, and some of it was never updated for use on the new hardware.
I've been using a Mac Mini I bought new for $500 for the past 10 years. I was kinda hoping Apple would release another in that price range but the last update on those didn't have an option in that range. Perhaps the new ones will, but considering their current plans I don't want to be put in the same position I was when I bought that 6100 or the G4.
So I purchased a new Raspberry Pi 4 with 8GB of ram a couple weeks ago just in case my old Mini bites the dust. Performance wise it's pretty close the Mini I have now. The hardest part of moving to it is not being able to run BBEdit. I've been using that for around 20 years and it's almost worth buying a new Mac just for that. But the idea that a new Mac will likely be obsoleted in just a couple years and I'll have purchase another new Mac again to keep using it is a deal breaker for me right now.
iMac is not upgradeable however. don't kid yourself.
> macOS will certainly not be supported for 6+ years (assuming a similar timeline as during the last transition).
Don't understand this at all. macOS will be supported forever. Did you miss a word?
Apple has indicated that ARM is where their future is. If you’re looking at using the product for 6 years and can afford to wait a bit, I would wait for the ARM ones. Even though the first generation may not be perfect. Based on the past experiences, Apple is pretty good at making the hardware. Software may take a bit to catch up, but the upside in performance and flexibility could be very high.
So, I would advise you to go to third route, build a hackintosh system there are some good website which lists well reviewed hackintosh builds like
https://www.tonymacx86.com/buyersguide/building-a-customac-h...
give it a try, It will last for at least 5 years(may be 10). you can always update it to run Linux or Windows in future when you buy a matured Arm based iMac.
Having to read over multiple threads before updating, having to reset iCloud passwords after triggering Apple's security checks, etc is not all that fun. It ends up being more work than it seems upfront. I'm perfectly fine with it as I'm a student with a lot of time, but its not for everyone.
My reasoning was I need it now and I feel like I could still get a few years out of it (Apple will likely support it even while moving to ARM).
The only worry is, if you plan to keep it for a long time, how long will macOS support the Intel line. I know Apple said they would, but iirc the PPC —> Intel change caused the PPC macs to stop being supported after 2 years.
Whatever the fraction of performance the i5/i7 is, anything that's cooler and quieter is worth it and you don't likely notice the performance difference anyways.
Numerous things cause the fan to run flat out, for example crashplan.
The ARM based iteration that Apple will ship will be good, potentially great even, but it doesn't change the fact that it will be the first iteration.
Apple will be supporting Intel for at least a couple of yeas, seeing as they just introduced the most beefy MBP 16 inch and the refreshed iMac and iMac Pro along with the Mac Pro.
Everything works, I can virtualize any OS I want.
No regrets.
That said, if you don't need to buy now, then don't -- especially when it comes to Apple gear.
Much better would be to solve both problems by buying a good and 2x cheaper and 3x faster AMD laptop with Linux. Like a Lenovo.
