GNOME 3 removed everything, feature by feature, without realising that everything was simply becoming more complicated. Having to install at least 3 extensions in order to make a desktop environment behave the way it is supposed to is asinine, and it feels like they totally forgot who their target users are.
Plus, GNOME has been deliberately hostile towards anything non-GNOME for so long now that I am surprised there aren't more people out there telling them to screw themselves. GTK+ has also been monopolised by them and it's become harder release after release to keep track to what they were doing to the point that some devs actually found rewriting everything using Qt a more productive way to spend their time.
Granted, Xfce has gone through a toolkit change before, but switching again would be too much of a burden.
I feel like there was a sweet spot in the mid and late 00s when there were efforts to promote cross-desktop standards (the "XDG" in those environment variables means "cross-desktop group") that made it easier to write apps that would integrate well with any environment, regardless of what toolkit you were using. But at some point in the early 10s that degenerated into GNOME ramming "standards" down people's throats and going their own way without any attempt to work with the rest of the community.
It's an interesting coincidence that systemd's rise (with similar standards-forcing and advocacy for tight coupling) was somewhat concurrent with GNOME's descent into community hostility.
This is a valid concern:
https://askubuntu.com/questions/477178/avoid-double-titlebar...
They've since added support for client-side decorations, but it arguably wasn't by choice. It definitely feels like a cat and mouse game now.
As for gtk, they still have not merged the patch for thumbnails in the open file dialog.
I don't know a ton about it but I assume gnome-shell is where all the JS (which I gather is a huge thing in Gnome now) runs, judging from how crashy and resource-gobbling it is.
> the new KDE is surprisingly light
I had a strong aversion to KDE because I never liked how it made non-K* apps feel out-of-place, and I prefer almost none of the K* apps to other (largely GTK) alternatives, plus it used to be (talking many years ago) far heavier both in feel/performance and compile time than Gnome, but yeah, that's what I've switched to, and it performs far better. "Foreign" apps no longer feel as out-of-place as they used to and with some tweaking I don't hate the appearance.
What they've done to Gnome is so bizarre. I even kinda like the look & feel but damn, it's way too big a pig to be always-on on my machine.
- why is "recent items" first?
- why are the folders down the side random paths?
- why is there no place to enter a path?
- why does it do a recursive search when I type in the window?
ctrl+l is the keyboard shortcut for editing the path.
https://userbase.kde.org/Browser_Configuration/Firefox_Dialo...
KDE file dialogs for GTK+ applications: https://www.linuxsecrets.com/archlinux-wiki/wiki.archlinux.o...
1. It saves tons of time.
> - why are the folders down the side random paths?
2. Same as 1.
> why is there no place to enter a path?
3. Because of 1, 2, and 4. Use ^L, when you need it.
> - why does it do a recursive search when I type in the window?
4. Same as 1.
I wonder what's wrong. There are only like a few simple animations in GNOME. C'mon, I could run Compiz smoothly on some old GeForce FX with more flashy effects enabled.
https://github.com/mpv-player/mpv/wiki/FAQ#i-use-gnome-wayla...
> Is GNOME actively sabotaging the Linux Desktop?
https://github.com/mpv-player/mpv/wiki/FAQ#Is_GNOME_actively...
I've worked on projects where I have wanted to do similar things, just refuse to work on systems i know are buggy and I do not have the time to fix.
Removing support is a passive action; you accomplish it by just doing nothing. Calling exit() is rather more on the aggressive side.
All that said, good on 'em. I got a decent chuckle.
I agree too. At minimum there should be a launch flag (e.g. -allowGnome) so users don't need to outright recompile the app.
https://www.reveddit.com/r/linux/comments/hnoksv/mpv_devs_co...
Original
https://old.reddit.com/r/gnome/comments/hn1s3r/mpv_is_not_an...
https://old.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/hnoksv/mpv_devs_cons...
edit: removed posts are back https://www.reveddit.com/r/gnome/comments/hn1s3r/mpv_is_not_...
They finally managed to convert me to KDE after 20 years, so that's something.
I'm the author of https://www.reveddit.com/about/. It's a fork of removeddit that adds features like user pages and notifications when your content is removed.
https://removeddit.com/r/linux/comments/hnoksv/mpv_devs_cons...
Does anyone know a decent counterpoint to this? Or an argument why Gnome is being reasonable?
Do you by chance know of an article that documents that? I remember seeing one back then that compiled discussions with gnome developers from multiple sources showing that, but I've lost it since then.
This summarizes the problem quite well, not only that GNOME apps are often broken outside GNOME, but if you try to run non-GNOME app on GNOME (even Gtk based) you might get broken apps because system tray (AppIndicator) isn't there or some other random bs where the functionality is removed for the sake of making users frustrated. This is somewhat similar to deletionist culture of wikipedia, delete delete delete. Basically work done outside of GNOME junta isn't valued and even if accepted might be removed in the next release.
The worst part is that despite all this, a GNOME Foundation community manager even lied about the whole thing [1], claiming that MPV never even contacted GNOME before dropping support. He also talked about how the lack of cooperation was hurting the FOSS community [2], even though many app developers including MPV did in fact share their concerns on GNOME's gitlab issue tracker [3][4] and it was GNOME maintainers that chose to ignore them.
I've been using the GNOME for quite some time, but it's time for me to switch. Some applications didn't look quite right recently, and now I know the reason why.
[1]: https://old.reddit.com/r/gnome/comments/hn1s3r/mpv_is_not_an...
[2]: https://old.reddit.com/r/gnome/comments/hn1s3r/mpv_is_not_an...
But as for the idle inhibiting API, there is some (slow) progress in the form of two MRs. And they weren't closed outright, some code review took place instead:
https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gtk/-/merge_requests/2226
https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/mutter/-/merge_requests/111
This message also looks relatively encouraging: https://old.reddit.com/r/gnome/comments/hn1s3r/mpv_is_not_an...
https://github.com/mpv-player/mpv/commit/7d11eda72e90d7aa9df...
https://github.com/mpv-player/mpv/commit/c4dc600f1f2e08f87cf...
https://github.com/mpv-player/mpv/commit/1e70e82baa9193f6f02...
I'll definitely be borrowing that at some point.
Existence of locale means you essentially cannot safely use standard libc string functions in library code or in threaded software, particularly when interacting with a file format where stuff like number formatting is normative.
The fixes are really pretty incomplete and the result is people ending up having to ship their own implementations of these functions ... which interacts poorly with all the effort going in to harden string functions because they're a constant source of vulnerabilities.
The situation for libraries that call libraries where the middle library really needs to get things right and the called library can be more YOLO about it is ... pretty absurd.
There's a few forks and there's always elementary if you want to pay for to truely support folks.
Fck GNOME devs coming straight from tha underground
A young hacker got it bad cos he's out
of other FOSS choices so devs think
They have the authority to break their reverse dependencies
Fck that shit, cause I ain't the one
For a brainwashed developer to be lecturing on
"If you don't like it, just don't upgrade"
what and use unsupported software with no security updates?
Fcking with me cos I'm not an average user
So I gotta put up with the preferences of pretentious designers
Rearranging my workflow, oversimplifying their product
Thinking every user is a fcking dumb idiot
You'd rather see, me wasting time
Than take responsibility for your poisonous party line.
Pwn a GNOME dev with an 0-day
and when I'm finished, fck with GTK
to pad a hundred pixels inside every border
yeah enjoy your own fcking bread and water!
I don't know if they NSA
Slowing hackers down, and wasting screen space
And on the other hand, without FOSS they can't get jobs
Cause they just failed at trying to be Steve Jobs.
Dumbing down the ecosystem, training user ignorance,
Spitting on those who built our community in the first place!
Anonymous will rewrite
Every application with a GNOME design
Just cause I think more mathematically
Punk designers are afraid of me!
HUH, a young hacker on the warpath
And when I'm finished, they'll wish they'd merged my patch
when they had a chance, but now it's too late
Yo J, GNOME's been replaced.
Example of scene one
[GNOME Dev] Pull up your goddamn debugger right now!
[Hacker] Aww shit, now what the fuck they changing their API for?
[GNOME Dev] Cause I feel like it! Now sit the fuck down for 16 hours and patch yo fucking software
[Hacker] Man, fuck this shit
[GNOME Dev] Aight smartass, I'm breaking yo entire desktop!Unfortunately, because gnome is what most people use and what the distro defaults to other choices are inherently second class.
I happily used xmonad for years, but eventually got forced out of it due to compatibility especially once things started using wayland.
I wonder if us desktop users need a pact of the form that we'll stop using gnome completely of 51% of other users also stop using gnome. :)