H-1B: Government issues first-ever official estimate of visa population in U.S. (opens in new tab)

H1b min salary is adjusted based on locale. Mountain View , CA was ~90k around 2011 if I recall correctly

Tangential anecdata, but 65k was my starting salary at IBM in San Jose in 2007 as non-H-1B

Literally everyone who lives in California came from somewhere else. Who gets to decide when the music stops forever, and everyone who found a seat gets to stay, and everyone else has to find somewhere else to live?

I've been here 25 years now... Do I count? My son grew up here, does he count even though he's my son? I'm sure the Native Americans or the Spanish after them would love to chat about your ideas on immigration. This state would be a pristine garden without all the northern European descendents mucking up the place.

How far back do we need to go? Talk about no commute and lots of free time! Get rid of all the immigrants and this place would be heaven. Sadly, all the people who consider themselves "local" would have to go as well.

I have a friend with an EB-1 visa. She's good ("alien of exceptional ability") at her job I suppose, which is being a porn actress. Somewhat hilariously it was rather easy for her to meet the criteria (international prizes, being highly paid compared to peers, commercial success, being published in media etc.).

The H1B is not directly comparable to EB-1. The former is a non-immigrant visa, is easier to qualify for (just need to have a bachelor's degree in a "specialty occupation") except for the lottery part and less costly to obtain (around $5-7k total in fees). The latter an immigrant visa, costs quite a bit more to obtain ($10-20k in total fees) and requires more regimented labor market testing process to prove there are no willing, able and qualified US workers for that position. A better comparison would be between the H1B and O1. Both are non-immigrant visas and the O1's requirements are quite similar to EB-1.

>H-1B1 is not the visa type for the best and brightest. That visa type is EB-1. H-1B is about skills in high demand not extraordinary ability.

So Melania Trump was the best and brightest? By what metric?

Of course.... for many it is, even though it is very abusive and a terrible system. Let's be honest, it is a modern interpretation of 19th century 'in-tenured servitude'. It is almost Feudal system by nature.

It is very similar to workers having to 'pay their immigration' debts, while not directly, but by tying the visa to an employe, and making hard to move employers if you are going through the green card process (it can reset you green card process in many cases).

Who knew, the feudal system if live and well, in the 21st century. If you don't like it, banishment/expulsion from the community. (aka, deportation) to where you come from.

It is something that many put up, for a better life. If you are in the 'non capped' countries, usually it is few years to endure it until you get the green card, but for the caped countries, it can take decades to get the green card.

For someone from countries like India - it is. Not so much for someone from countries like Germany or Japan I suppose.

One and a half years is actually typical for someone from a non-backlogged country.

H1B petitions in computer occupations are predominantly in software development and computer programming.

About 30% are for "computer systems analyst" or "computer occupations, other" but I don't really buy most of those petitions aren't actually for devs. All software developers on TN visas (NAFTA/USMCA visas) are officially "computer systems analysts" for example.

Especially since the government gets from all non-immigrants:

- Common carrier arrival manifests.

- Visa stamp process arrival record and I-94 issuance. [4]

- US-VISIT biometrics collection on arrival. [2]

- Form I-9 when starting a new job. [3]

- Form AR-11 every time they move. [1]

- Common carrier departure manifests.

- Tax returns.

As far as I can tell the only people who "sneak out" do so by crossing the border into Canada and the US should have access to that data from Canadian authorities after the fact also.

[1] https://www.uscis.gov/ar-11

[2] https://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/usvisit/usvisit_edu_trav...

[3] https://www.uscis.gov/i-9

[4] https://i94.cbp.dhs.gov/I94/

They definitely have all the data they need, verifiable many times over. No one wants to do the work to talk to all the different agencies involved to compile it.

When was the last time you traveled outside the USA? Did you notice how Customs and Border Patrol did not check and stamp your passport, like they do for incoming travelers?

Therefore, since there is no way to detect when an H1B worker leaves the country, there is no easy way to estimate the number of H1Bs currently in the country.

Of course it exists. It's called an I-94. DHS has that info.

Every single foreigner is assigned a unique alien number and tracks your entry and exit into the country.

They just don't want to deal with connecting information from two different departments.

So when a H1b holder enters the US with their H1b, there is no way for the border official to know if it's real? That seems impossible to me.

You want the government to be more effective and efficient at tracking people?

I would suggest that you take a look at the guidelines[1] for hacker news, which I believe set a good standard for productive discourse. Particularly:

> Please don't comment on whether someone read an article. "Did you even read the article? It mentions that" can be shortened to "The article mentions that."

[1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Make governments compete in a free market like companies. It's an interesting idea, and compelling on its face. But that leaves open the question of how a government could ever be expected to invest in it's people. The incentive for other countries would be to not invest as much in education of their own, since anyone could up and move to a country with lower taxes immediately once they finished school. Or they wouldn't invest in healthcare, since you could just "move" to a country that has healthcare, get treated, and then move back to your low-tax country immediately after.

I expect we'd end up with a system pretty similar to the one we have now, with each country demanding a certain "investment" from the prospective citizen before they be granted the benefits of citizenship (e.g. certain number of years spent there) or that they are bringing something valuable to the table (e.g. in-demand skills or qualifications).

This is so wrong, it is comical. You have a lot less leverage, especially if you want/are in the process of getting a green card.

As a former H1B holder (and currently on a Green Card), being on a H-1B has prevented me:

1. Not accepting a higher salary offer, but going with a more 'safe option'

2. Having to negotiate for asap Green Card application, vs. salary

3. Not being able to accept a promotion to a manager, as I had a ongoing Green Card application as engineer/ic, and that would jeopardize my green card application

4. Not being able to create, or join a very early startup

5. Having high anxiety, for all the paperwork required, and the RFE recieved after switching jobs...

6. Inability to switch jobs, if you have a Perm/Green Card application ongoing, as it will rest it (even for non-capped countries, it might take 2+ years for the whole process to go through)

etc... etc..

You must be young and naive if you believe being on a H1B doesn't suppress one's salary, or potential.

The current H1B system is in-tenured servitude, and a continuation of old Feudal System, by tying the ability to work for a class of workers to their employer. Yes, you can switch employers, but at great costs, and at risking eventual deportation (if you don't play the immigration game right, and get the Perm/Green Card in time).

I've also had several employers (from a startup to a FAANG) tell me that an H-1B transfer would be no problem. I haven't actually done it, but I don't feel as mobility-impared as people seem to believe I should.

Yes it does do that and worse. When I was on H1b years back in big co, most of my coworkers were on h1b as well and they were scared to death to leave because of comfort and self doubt. Some manager knew this and abused this power by pointing out that their green card application can be withdrawn any moment if they don’t work on weekends.

Economists have researched that data, and consistently confirmed what the GP asserted:

"Research by Daniel Costa, of the left-leaning Economic Policy Institute, and Howard University political science professor Ron Hira, found that 60% of H-1B workers receive lower-than-average wages for their job and region. Google, Facebook and Apple “take advantage of program rules in order to legally pay many of their H-1B workers below the local median wage for the jobs they fill,” Costa and Hira said in an Economic Policy Institute paper."

(from the article above)

It's fundamentally not a level playing field in "at-will" employment states where losing a job means finding a new one or leaving the country within <x> number of days.

This is good information, thank you. I had team members who had put down roots here and they would be terrified every time they had to renew. They were Indian so it was likely because of the queue you mentioned their green card application seemed to never end.

I'd still rather spare people that terror.

I am a conservative strongly against illegal immigration, but conversely I think we need to open up legal immigration a lot more, especially to those who've worked here and contributed to our economic success, like H-1B workers.

> For folks from countries that don't have a large backlog, you can get a green card in something like 3 or 4 years today.

If you've got a motivated employer you can get it done in 18 months.

- PERM takes 6-9 months to prepare.

- PERM takes 120 days to certify currently.

- I-140, I-485, I-765, I-131 and I-693 can be filed simultaneously for rest-of-world.

- I-140 with premium processing takes 1-15 days (3-12 months without).

- I-485 takes 8-14 months, but after 180 days you're AC21 portable.

Or just also quota H1B.

"Non-immigrant visa" simply means "getting it doesn't grant you immigrant status". In this way it's like a tourist or student visa.

The H-1B is a dual-intent visa. This means "you may apply for it and show intent to immigrate, for example, by starting the PERM process". This is unlike a tourist or student visa, where there are grounds for denial if you show any intent to immigrate.

There are a number of "I'd like to immigrate to the US" visas, primarily based around 3 categories - family, employment, or refugee status. The employment-based green card (which is what H-1B holders apply for) has quotas based upon the applicant's country of birth. An H-1B holder born anywhere other than India or China can get an employment-based green card in less than 3 years.

I'm an Indian. As a past H1B visa holder, I know that this happens. I've seen people being so biased that they only recruit people from the state they belong to in India.

And, I've come across Americans in bay area who were so pissed off with this that they voted for Trump. The level of politics and discrimination I've seen would make anyone angry.

There are highly skilled people working on H1B but they're a minority. If H1B allows only full time employment and no contract jobs, a lot of abuse will be eliminated.

Edit: Why the downvotes? Truth hurts? This is a known secret throughout the valley.

I'm guessing the '99%' number is hyperbole, because that would roughly equal around 60K H1B active visa holders so far and it doesn't make sense at all.

Besides, most of the "legitimate" companies, pay good wages (this would be pretty much any company in the bay area). I'm not sure if you know this, but almost all H1Bs negotiate their offers in the valley (and in places like NYC/Chicago/Atlanta).

There's an additional overhead to the company hiring H1Bs as well, it's somewhat cost prohibitive in general.

Are you a software developer? Most people seem to underestimate the work software developers do, it's definitely not a simple "desk job".

That said, I've made my peace with this, if a majority of the people think that they don't want high skilled immigrants in the country (as opposed to say, low farm labor, which hires way more H-visas). I'm cool with it, I'm making my way to Canada anyway, and my current employer is ok with it.

The impression I get is that Americans don't want to do "dirty" jobs, like farm labor, clearly the latest Executive Order exempted them. Somehow, that it is morally acceptable to vie for the high paying jobs, while outsourcing the "dirty" jobs to immigrants.

Citation needed. In both India & China, H-1B has given millions of talented people a pathway to learn new skills and earn a vastly increased income, and many of them have returned to their home countries to found their own companies and spread the wealth. So while the implementation of the program remains pretty broken, and the jury is out on their net impact to America, from a global POV the visas have definitely been a plus.

>Without the H-1B in place, these companies would be working to fix America's education system, paying more in salary to workers, and lifting more Americans into the middle class.

Without this system, companies would move a lot of jobs to Canada(which has a much easier immigration system) and to India and East Europe etc. Which would hurt the general economy real hard.

Those big tech companies already have international offices. Why wouldn't they have just expanded those offices?

Investing in education etc is not really the job of companies in our capitalist system. They could not capture enough of the value to justify the cost, especially given the very long lead times.p