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0 pointssergeykish6y ago0 comments

There is no competitor because there was no problem. For most of use cases SysV, rc.d worked. Just like ifconfig.

Arch Linux switched to systemd earlier than Debian. And I have not noticed. Arch community accepts breaking changes. Debian? I believe they value stability.

Systemd should have matured, proved its citizenship and qualities. And it would have been accepted. Instead it usurped. People had no choice but to abandon their platforms. Decade of angry forum thread shows that there is a problem. Just like with python3, it's better to learn. And it is especially painful that there was PulseAudio just before. Same pointless change. Removed it and never looked back. ALSA works for me, still.

0 comments

theamk6y ago

Usurped how? Who and how forced Debian and Arch to switch to systemd?

sergeykishOP6y ago

You're missing a point. It's about feelings. Not my feelings at all. But empathy.

Replacement for "no problem" should run without problems.

python2 had no problems - there was a clear transition path:

    1. "str" => b"str"
    2. wait some time
    3. "str" is u"str"

ALSA had no problems - just wait till PulseAudio is ready.

SysV, rc.d had no problems - just wait till systmed is ready.

If SysV was as bad there would be same amount of outcry as with systmed

Was it really necessary to make it painful?

Who? Somehow systemd defenders has no empathy and Lennart Poettering is a prime example. No matter right them or wrong they are perceived as threat.

Just be nice. It may hinder innovation but it helps community.

kelnos6y ago

GNOME, essentially. If you want to run a fully-functioning GNOME on your distro, you have to be running systemd. Or have the time and patience to maintain a large patch set to work around the systemd dependencies.

theamk6y ago

This became this way only once systemd has won. At least during Debian systemd debate, both sysvinit and upstart could run Gnome just fine.

(also, what were the alternatives? I don't run GNOME myself, but given what GNOME wants do to, it does need a solid session management. I have seen ConsoleKit, it was worse than systemd.)

dane-pgp6y ago

Debian's tech committee had their infamous vote about the default init system for Jessie in February 2014. Earlier, in October 2013, Josselin Mouette, a GNOME packager for Debian, wrote this:

"GNOME in jessie will need systemd as the init system to work with all its features, just like it needs the network configuration to be handled by NetworkManager."

arpa6y ago

Debian used to value stability. Nowadays - not so much.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse

0 comments

theamk6y ago

Usurped how? Who and how forced Debian and Arch to switch to systemd?

sergeykishOP6y ago

You're missing a point. It's about feelings. Not my feelings at all. But empathy.

Replacement for "no problem" should run without problems.

python2 had no problems - there was a clear transition path:

    1. "str" => b"str"
    2. wait some time
    3. "str" is u"str"

ALSA had no problems - just wait till PulseAudio is ready.

SysV, rc.d had no problems - just wait till systmed is ready.

If SysV was as bad there would be same amount of outcry as with systmed

Was it really necessary to make it painful?

Who? Somehow systemd defenders has no empathy and Lennart Poettering is a prime example. No matter right them or wrong they are perceived as threat.

Just be nice. It may hinder innovation but it helps community.

kelnos6y ago

theamk6y ago

This became this way only once systemd has won. At least during Debian systemd debate, both sysvinit and upstart could run Gnome just fine.

(also, what were the alternatives? I don't run GNOME myself, but given what GNOME wants do to, it does need a solid session management. I have seen ConsoleKit, it was worse than systemd.)

dane-pgp6y ago

Debian's tech committee had their infamous vote about the default init system for Jessie in February 2014. Earlier, in October 2013, Josselin Mouette, a GNOME packager for Debian, wrote this:

"GNOME in jessie will need systemd as the init system to work with all its features, just like it needs the network configuration to be handled by NetworkManager."

arpa6y ago

Debian used to value stability. Nowadays - not so much.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse