Ask HN: Could we create a Tor-like system for debit/credit cards?

7 pointsSimonDorfman5y ago4 comments

Idea: stop merchants from tracking all your purchases by creating something like the Tor network for credit/debit cards.

Maybe it works something like this: create a co-op financial institution that issues credit/debit cards. Each time you use a card from this co-op, it runs the transaction under an alias card number. You still get charged properly on the back end, but the merchant sees a different name and card number. To use Tor-parlance, imagine the different card numbers as different "exit nodes."

Would it be possible to create something like this? I'm hoping someone who understand the nuts and bolts of how credit/debit cards work can chime in.

Example:

Here are five people and their card numbers:

  | Name      | Card Number         |
  |-----------|---------------------|
  | Donna Doe | 1111 1111 1111 1111 |
  | Carla Coe | 1111 1111 1111 1112 |
  | Brett Boe | 1111 1111 1111 1113 |
  | Ralph Roe | 1111 1111 1111 1114 |
  | Paula Poe | 1111 1111 1111 1115 |

Donna Doe goes to the same supermarket every day for five days. Every day, she uses the same credit card (number 1111 1111 1111 1111). Even though the same card is swiped every day, the merchant sees five different names and card numbers. Example of what cards might randomly come up on those five card swipes:

Day 1: Paula Poe - 1111 1111 1111 1115

Day 2: Carla Coe - 1111 1111 1111 1112

Day 3: Donna Doe - 1111 1111 1111 1111

Day 4: Ralph Roe - 1111 1111 1111 1114

Day 5: Brett Boe - 1111 1111 1111 1113

( I posted the same question to Reddit here: https://www.reddit.com/r/fintech/comments/frhbw3/could_we_create_a_torlike_system_for_debitcredit/ )

4 comments

ehacke5y ago

At a high level, this is how Google Pay and Apple Pay function now. They create a temporary card number that's used in place of your own to insulate you from being tracked (to some extent).

The primary issue with anything like this is going to be getting VISA and Mastercard to play ball. And if you try to do an end-run around them, they'll just get this whole thing made illegal, if it isn't already.

I think the only way to really make headway in the payment anonymization front is to eventually have something like a cryptocurrency, but without all the speculative garbage that currently comes along with it.

moooo995y ago

This sounds like a fun idea, but similar to ehacke I doubt this would be legal. Payment processing is pretty complex and heavily regulated, making this an even harder project.

There are some projects that want to make credit card payments more anonymouse. There are some cryptocurrency credit card providers that have a license to operate, but using cryptocurrencies comes with its very own set of problems.

Another way would be to use privacy.com. They allow you to create multiple credit cards with individual spending limits or ones for single use. So you could have one credit card for your netflix subscription, another one for your Spotify subscription and so one. Unfortunately their service is only available to U.S customers and I couldn't find any alternative for EU customers (if you know of any, please let me know).

I can't try privacy.com myself, but from what I've read an heard, this seems like the most promising option for private credit-card payments.

ploika5y ago

You can use Revolut in the EU to create virtual credit cards. I haven't used the service myself (though I do use Revolut), but it seems similar enough to what privacy.com offers.

hackermailman5y ago

GNU Taler solves this problem assuming they can find a bank to issue it and merchants to accept it.

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