Also, when the correct answer is revealed, it would be great to somehow highlight the cats that are actually described by the formula. Yes, this is hard for 0.
Also, the animations feel too fast to me. I find they make the whole thing stressful, somehow.
ALSO, when a wrong answer is given, the question disappears! That's terrible UX.
EDIT: I should add that I think the idea is great! But some details of the implementation could be improved.
Taking away the counting is reducing the thinking they have to do. If that's your goal, ok, but I personally think the counting, while mixed in with the "set logic" part, is an important component.
I could agree that you could have two modes, where that is one of them.
I was going to suggest they add a feature to make it accept numbers entered via the the keyboard, but I figured I should check first if they've already done so. They did. :)
I just played this with my daughter who is 4 year old. She have found the first 4 levels easy. She was having a little bit trouble with level 5 negation and conjunction but we had to take a break since we were running for a date.
She didn't have any problem with zero being on the right.
She didn't have any problem with linguistics compherension so far.
She was able to differentiate colors and animating cats from the rest and it was perfect.
She is familiar with digital buttons so she was able to press them but even with her tiny fingers sometimes pressing 4 instead of 5 etc. (We played on mobile)
I direct the game for her. (Start, go up levels when she was bored)
Overall thank you for this because she is going to have a gifted and talented "test" next week and this looked very similar to that and she was active and entertained choosing the answers so I can see this could be a good segway I to it.
Did this happen with your children? Did they have an issue with that?
Personally I think that the same question shouldn't be asked multiple times consecutively. The most I had it happen was 4 times in a row but every other time except for twice times I had 2 in a row.
I hit a bug though - level 7 generated a "how many cats are spinning" question whose answer is 10, but there's no "10" button and trying to type "1" "0" fails at the first "1". But I see `cats_for_level` allows there to be `level + 5` cats, so is there some way to input an answer greater than 9?
Also, is it not confusing to have cats that are "also" ducks, rather than have a different kind of cat? Like cats with different-colored noses or have their mouth open. (In that puzzle 5 of the spinning cats are cats and the other 5 are ducks. But the dev console log does say it wants 10, not 5.)
max_cats = level + 5;
Edit: you've pointed this out in your comment and I somehow missed it.
1. Clarifying ambiguity and extrapolating are important logic skills.
2. "How many blue cats are not bouncing" is how people actually talk.
If I apply your logic to that, then we never know any quantity of any type of cat in any question, because there are more off-screen.
But when you are asked a question about something that is not displayed in front of you, then you do not presume that what you see is the entirety of evidence, because you are being asked about something for which what you are looking at provides no evidence. Therefore, "all cats," rather than "these cats."
"I don't see any of the blue cats, so I don't know how many of the blue cats are bouncing"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presupposition
It's also a thing in mathematics.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syllogism#Existential_import
The statement "How many blue cats are bouncing" makes the presupposition that blue cats exist. That's just how language works.
It's one of those things where a formal education in mathematics will teach you to think about a thing in a way that is actually unnatural to most human beings.
The standard example that linguists use is "Do you still beat your wife?" to which you can answer neither "Yes" nor "No". Answering "Yes" means you admit that you used to beat your wife and that you are still doing it. Answering "No" means you admit that you used to beat your wife but claim that you are no longer doing it. You can only answer by escaping to the meta-level and attacking the presupposition as in "I am not currently beating my wife, nor have I ever beaten my wife". If you're a politician, then even that will get you in trouble. (Not thinking of a pink elephant, and all that, ...)
I encourage you to parent your own children. HN users are typically adults and can make their own decisions on whether some screen time for their kids is ok, and what sort of screen time. Doing a logic puzzle is not, in my opinion, the same as going from video to video of squeaky voiced ladies with brightly colored nails opening toy eggs on YouTube.
Is it ok if my daughter videochats with relatives? Or is that screen time and therefore bad?
Is it ok is she draws with crayons? Crayons and paper may be "actual objects", but the images she creates are no more "actual" than the pixels on a screen.
The world is a lot more complex and subtle than just dividing things into "screen time" and "real world".
But of course, do parent your own children. You are the optimisation function. You may value abstract thinking higher than spatial imagination dexterity etc.
Then of course his family doesn't seem to be pushing him, rather than supporting him, and if they had been pushing him hard into this it could possibly had a totally different outcome.
this tool seems to optimize practicing logic more than enjoying logic.
i think kids will find greater success in life with logic if they're taught to enjoy it before they're taught to master it.
why do i think this?
my dad wrote a "computer game" in 4th Dimension in the late 80s that was just randomized arithmetic problems. i had to get a certain score before i could play outside etc. i got really good at answering his program's stupid questions. i also learned to resent him for it and have negative associations w arithmetic to this day.
i also quickly lost my "skills" and am bad at arithmetic now.
it was a nice idea but please don't repeat his mistake.
To me it is just one thing, one of many, many things a kid will encounter, that help them understand concepts. It's not that different from the typical ad hoc "games" I play with my daughter, often while in the car. From "I spy with my little eye" to "what's the opposite of X" to "I'm thinking of a movie where there is a...." to "how many points on a star? how many wheels on a bicycle?" and so on.
I'm not sure what sort of "enjoying logic" you are expecting from a 2-4 year old. Solving little puzzles actually seems pretty enjoyable to them, from my experience. This is not to suggest that it should come at the expense of more "natural" ways of learning logical concepts.
Left to enjoy, eh?
> I had to get a certain score before i could play outside
Your intrinsic motivation was killed with extrinsic motivation. That's the lesson here. Exercises are okay. Children kinda like exercises - even stupid or pointless ones.
Back in the ‘80’s there was a game called “Rocky’s Boots” that taught logic to kids.
https://archive.org/details/Rockys_Boots_1982_Learning_Compa...
Just a warning for future explorers
"Warning: the game will speak out loud (since young kids cannot read the questions), so check your volume."
Will be trying the counting part with kid next morning.
I assume its random() based, did get a lot of 3 cats, specially in a row. Never 0 cats or more than 5. I would remove the answer buttons for 6 to 0, or a button to hide those maybe?
To be clear: I tried each number 0 - 9 to make sure none are correct. This question cannot be answered and blocks further progress.
I draw up a heap of multi-input AND and OR gates, and some inverters, then wire them together in more or less random ways. Then put 0 or 1 on all of the inputs, and get the kids to work out what some given output will be.
The good things I've found are:
- This seems easily within reach of my kids from age 5 or so, probably many could start even younger
- all they need to get going is the concept of AND, OR and NOT, easily graspable
- It's quite positive for their self-esteem, since what they're doing looks (especially to their seniors) insanely complex, but logic is really not that hard
- It's paper-based, no screentime, pin them up on their wall when they're done
- It's super quick to set up each "puzzle", and you don't even need to spend any time setting up some complicated trick answer, or even really testing your puzzle. Any old random logic circuits are great fun for them to step through and come up with the outputs.
- you can step it up to more complex things - e.g. change up some of the inputs once they've got their first outputs, chuck in some flipflops etc.
When you click a number or press a key, the number should be highlighted for a short time.
In some other games, after a wrong try the number disappear and in other games the number gets semitransparent and disabled. It makes the later tries easier, but my small daughter learned to bruteforce the tests :) .
Sad cats when you get a wrong answer? Perhaps it's a bad idea.
Super happy cats when you get the right answer?
What about a mixed level, where you get some samples of the last two levels? (The last levels are not so easy.)
What about dogs? I like dogs. :)
If I could add something, I would make getting an answer right a little more rewarding. A correct answer graphic, or a correct answer counter.
I realize this is probably a proof of concept for a minimum viable game and standard game mechanics did not make the cut.
I will test it out on my 3 year old tomorrow.
The first part is about 'counting', or maybe recognising a count without counting (I didn't count the cats 1-2-3, because I can instantly recognise 3 of something).
If you're interested in exploring this further, the book How to Teach your Baby Math, by Glenn Doman, recommends teaching babies/toddlers numbers by showing them cards with dots on them, one at a time, whilst saying aloud the number of dots.
Instead of making your own cards and using your own voice, you can run this web app and use your smartphone and thumb.
The initial screen is blank. Tap anywhere on the screen to show some dots and hear the number. After about a second, the screen will again be blank, ready for you to tap again.
You can set the language via an URL parameter:
Many people have these "screen time" opinions. I'm not saying I disagree, but why do you think zero screen time is the correct amount?
Main points being that brain activity and cognitive tests have shown that kids with excessive screen time use exhibited negative results. Granted these tests likely refer to unattended, non-interactive screen time which is slightly different than this particular app's situation. But the general idea and question of screen time is relevant.
Also anecdotally, I have a young nephew and niece who's parents recently instituted a screen time purge for weeks at a time -- ( parent is an MD and recently attended a conference where research showed similar negative impacts in children's brain development after screen time use ). They've seen less hyperactivity, less meltdowns and improved listening and behavior. Again, one example, so take it for what it's worth.
Raising kids is a time consuming, challenging endeavor for most people, and everyone's experience is going to be unique. So, to each their own. And I'm someone who grew up with NES and after school cartoons. But even given that, I intend on leaning towards caution in this respect and limit screen time as much as possible certainly towards the younger age spectrum.
And apps take up no space while also easily being updated to be more challenging as the child's capabilities grow.
It's usually the first/second issue discussed when sending kids to friends homes.
> It's usually the first/second issue discussed when sending kids to friends homes.
If it never happens, why would you discuss if it's going to happen?
This is cool though. I never thought to build something to help teach my son anything
2. How can i turn it into an app for ipad use
But he really enjoyed it otherwise, thank you for this, and thank you for making it open source!
Nice work!
How many of you have 2 year olds that can read?
For those that can read, was this thru your parental efforts, self taught, or daycare / 3rd party?
How many languages can your 2 yr old read?
God please its 10, where is my 10,10, 100000,.
no no1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!sw
its 10!!!
tajsfueygfwfpawhfahfghf
(I'm kidding of course, I agree with your point)
Kids 2 to 4 should not be using screens. They have too much to learn.