Firefox Full-device VPN (opens in new tab)

It’s pretty normal to test features in one market and then roll it out and solve scaling issues or bugs that crop up. If you have a flawless strategy to scale and roll out a big bug free release across the globe I’m sure a lot of people would be interested in that.

Just like Disney+ that started in the Netherlands months before starting in the US.

What are the legal implications for Mozilla with this? Hand waving that all the technology is available outside the US doesn't absolve Mozilla from Liability or Legal obligations in the US or anywhere else it's offering the service.

It's in Beta, why should they go through all the legal processes to launch the product globally where there's still the potential that the final product might look completely different or never release?

I think it's because Firefox have made their own client and they only want to offer Wireguard connections.

Since Wireguard is still a bit new and buggy, they probably want to make sure it's stable and roll out in stages.

Give them some time, eh?

How about offering support in all the countries and time zones a world-wide rollout would require? That's not trivial.

For legal and payment processing reasons most likely. May need extra time to set up for other countries. Hi dang ;)

Mullvad already supports linux wireguard clients if you want to just cut out the firefox middleman and use it internationally too - https://mullvad.net/en/download/#linux

Could you expand on why you, if I understood correctly, distrust CyberGhost?

It's getting hard to identify a trustworthy VPN provider, and CyberGhost seems to rate decently on thatoneprivacysite.net; in which, incidentally, I'm unsure whether to trust, although its VPN evaluation vectors do seem pretty appropriate and complete.

Consider another angle: Mozilla doesn't have experience running a VPN. There are a lot of terrible mistakes to be made there.

If Mozilla can secure a good contract with folks who have run a VPN, isn't that a better technical scenario? I mean, sure, you have to assume that the contract has teeth to enforce privacy guarantees. But I think that's part of the value proposition here.

Exactly. I was baited by the Firefox name.

It doesn't look like ProtonVPN supports WireGuard yet.

https://protonvpn.com/blog/whats-the-best-vpn-protocol/

Edit: As Gaelan mentioned below, this is an answer to hellcow's first question.

You mean the NordVPN that was hacked for god knows how long, knew about it themselves for months, and both deliberately hid that information from their customers and failed to fix the issue in a reasonable timeframe? [0]

With Mozilla you get someone you can hopefully trust (hopefully being the operative word).

[0] https://techcrunch.com/2019/10/21/nordvpn-confirms-it-was-ha...

On reputation alone, I would put Firefox/Mozilla above NordVPN if I was looking at buying a personal VPN.

Best I can find is the primatives "Ed25519 for certificates, Curve25519 for key exchange (ECDHE), and ChaCha20-Poly1305 for data streams but that suite isn’t supported by OpenVPN"...

They use Wireguard a new better VPN, faster and safer. It also deals better with interuptions in the connection. This should work fine one Linux but they seem to be working on their own client.

Mullvad is a great company they help finance development for Wireguard VPN, I don't know about NordVPN.

This one is also limited to 5 devices.

If Mullvad is in the US, courts can compel Mullvad to siphon their clients' information and not disclose it despite any claims their policy makes.

They link to Mullvad's No Logging Policy: https://mullvad.net/en/help/no-logging-data-policy/

It's there on the page.

"About our trusted partner

Firefox Private Network full-device protection is a VPN built by Firefox using global WireGuard servers provided by Mullvad, which has committed not to keep logs of any kind."

Just because they don't now, doesn't mean they might later. Law enforcement may override that in some circumstances.

Firefox Private Network uses Cloudflare for the browser extension and Mullvad for the desktop and mobile clients.

> Our partner for FPN Browser Protection is Cloudflare. Our partner for FPN Full-device Protection is Mullvad.

https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/privacy/firefox-private-networ...

Mozilla previously sold ProtonVPN as an affiliate for $10/month, but Firefox Private Network doesn't use them at all.

https://blog.mozilla.org/futurereleases/2018/10/22/testing-n...

Where's that mentioned?

edit: never mind

Mullvad is based in Sweden. Their site has details on their no-logging policy and summaries of the relevant Swedish laws:

https://mullvad.net/en/help/no-logging-data-policy/

https://mullvad.net/en/help/swedish-legislation/

Of course, it's up to you to determine how much you want to trust them.

Looking on the WireGuard site, it says that it's still a work in progress that "may contain security quirks", but they also say "already it might be regarded as the most secure, easiest to use, and simplest VPN solution in the industry." Both statements could be true, but I guess it's up to you whether or not you want to wait for a 1.0 release.

WireGuard is, from what I understand, probably ready for prime-time, it simply hasn't been proven to be.

Whatever it takes to get reduce their reliance on Google. Mozilla’s goals are at odds with the direction in which Google is taking Chrome, so their dependency on Google is unhealthy at best.

Money is a necessary evil, choices must be made.

It's a great idea to use Firefox like Wirecutter, as a recommendation for the best of each service type. Combine that with some thin interface over the top, like an OS, to control all the services you subscribe to with unified billing. Password leaks, manager, file sharing, bookmark sync, vpn, dns, newsfeed. Now a new person starting out on the internet doesnt need to learn about haveibeenpwned, dropbox, mullvad, cloudflare, and facebook/pocket. They can let Firefox (hopefully) select the best of each product type, and white label it as part of the Firefox family.

Another way to look at it:

Watching Firefox leverage its reputation as a privacy and security advocate is helpful for many people who care, but are not technically inclined.

Mullvad actually charges €5/month, which is about $5.54. (This doesn't take into account the 10% discount if you pay with Bitcoin or Bitcoin Cash.)

The $4.99 rate would be a 55 cent discount over the standard rate, which matches the cryptocurrency discount and would likely help support Firefox financially.

Mozilla has been trying to diversify its revenue for a long time:

https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2014/02/13/revenue-diversifica...

If you already use Mullvad, Firefox Private Network probably won't be an improvement for you.

However, this partnership would most likely benefit both Firefox and Mullvad. Firefox gets a stream of revenue (independent of Google) that would be used to finance development, and Mullvad acquires additional customers through the partnership who would otherwise not know about it.

How is this brand dilution?

If it's WireGuard based, the client allows you to specify your DNS servers.

Opera VPN collects user data. It's right in their policy. It's not a privacy respecting service.

Outline is an excellent piece of software, but VPN services mix traffic from many users through the same IP address, which may improve anonymity.

Nope, not correct.