Show HN: Change Python code while it's running using a reloading loop (opens in new tab)

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187 pointsjulvo6y ago39 comments

39 comments

33 comments · 15 top-level

uryga6y ago· 4 in thread

i wrote something similar a while ago, and it gave rise to a pretty head-scratching bug... my code was doing something like

  if type(x) is Foo:

and mysteriously failed for some data around the reload. turns out that Foo objects from before the reload were using a different class object than Foo objects after the reload (which makes sense in hindsight, as Foo was redefined). fun times debugging that!

julvoOP6y ago

That's a pain to debug. A similar thing happened to me with reload from Python's importlib. In the case of the reloading loop I think this will only happen when redefining the type within the loop, either through a class definition or an importlib reload.

uryga6y ago

yeah, importlib.reload caused mine as well! i'm wondering if there's a way to avoid that... maybe a @reloadable class decorator that saves a reference to each object you instantiate and switches out their .__class__ upon reload? obv not great for performance, but could be useful during development (which is where i'd mostly use hot reloading anyway)

1 more reply

nerdponx6y ago

Would this still fail if you used the preferred idiom of

    isinstance(x, Foo)

uryga6y ago

had to check to make sure isinstance wasn't doing some magic, but yes. the whole issue is that as far as python is concerned, the pre- and post-reload Foo classes aren't related in any way except by name and module, which aren't checked by either of these methods

(aside: i know that `isinstance` is the official way, but i just don't like the way it reads – "x is an instance of y" is an infix construct and looks weird in a prefix position. i don't really use inheritance so `type(x) is y` is good enough, and it reads very naturally)

Torwald6y ago· 3 in thread

Like ESR said: "these languages [perl, python, ruby] subsequently become more like lisp" (paraphrasing)

marcpaq6y ago

Are you paraphrasing ESR paraphrasing Greenspun's Tenth Rule of Programming?

"Any sufficiently complicated C or Fortran program contains an ad-hoc, informally-specified bug-ridden slow implementation of half of Common Lisp."

Ref: http://philip.greenspun.com/research/

P.S. This is not a comment on TFA. Congratulations to the author on making Python even more interactive.

Torwald6y ago

I am not so sure anymore where I read it. This is interesting:

https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-January/03...

It refers to this, I guess. http://www.paulgraham.com/lispfaq1.html?viewfullsite=1

"If you look at these languages in order, Java, Perl, Python, you notice an interesting pattern. At least, you notice this pattern if you are a Lisp hacker. Each one is progressively more like Lisp."

This is the basic thought. Turns out PG wrote it more explicitly than ESR.

kamyarg6y ago

Who is ESR?

Edit: Ah, it is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_S._Raymond , found after some googling

PerryCox6y ago· 3 in thread

Anyone else getting this error? I tried on Debian 9 and MacOS 10.14.6 after installing via pip.

  import reloading
  Traceback (most recent call last):
    File "<input>", line 1, in <module>
      import reloading
    File "/home/lucas.mccoy/.local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/reloading/__init__.py", line 1, in <module>
    from .reloading import reloading
    File "/home/lucas.mccoy/.local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/reloading/reloading.py", line 87
    exc = exc.replace('File "<string>"', f'File "{fpath}"')
                                                         ^
  SyntaxError: invalid syntax

julvoOP6y ago

It only works with Python 3. Thanks for reminding me that I should add a note to the Readme.

compressedgas6y ago

It does work in Python 2 with the following patch:

    diff --git a/reloading/reloading.py b/reloading/reloading.py
    index 1d28e2f..1a5f981 100644
    --- a/reloading/reloading.py
    +++ b/reloading/reloading.py
    @@ -84,9 +84,10 @@ def reloading(seq):
                 exec(body)
             except Exception:
                 exc = traceback.format_exc()
    -            exc = exc.replace('File "<string>"', f'File "{fpath}"')
    +            exc = exc.replace('File "<string>"', 'File "{}"'.format(fpath))
                 sys.stderr.write(exc + '\n')
    -            input('Edit the file and press return to continue with the next iteration')
    +            print('Edit the file and press return to continue with the next iteration')
    +            sys.stdin.readline()
     
         # copy locals back into the caller's locals
         for k, v in locals().items():

1 more reply

progval6y ago

That's an f-string, so it only works with Python 3.7 and later

1 more reply

_carl_jung6y ago· 3 in thread

This is awesome. A nice improvement would be to have the loop continue with the old code when there are errors (rather than pausing iteration).

rcfox6y ago

That seems like it would be confusing. Imagine trying to track down the source of behaviour that no longer exists in your code...

ianai6y ago

How would that be possible without having to essentially keep track of two files? Nice idea though.

earenndil6y ago

Basically, you just need a double buffer system:

- Always run from the back buffer

- Always scan the updated file into the front buffer

- If the front buffer is fresh AND the front buffer contains no bugs, bufferswap

deehouie6y ago· 2 in thread

This is a great debugging tool for deep learning. Often your code might have been running for 20 hrs on 16 GPUs and you just don't want to restart from scratch again.

mrmuagi6y ago

You don't have to without this tool, you can save and load models from/to disk already from provided APIs for frameworks/libraries (e.g. [1]). Handy for when you need to hard reset, move, and/or share data.

[1] https://pytorch.org/tutorials/beginner/saving_loading_models...

liuliu6y ago

Yeah. But wouldn't it be nice / cool if the training process is interactive, reproducible, recordable and replayable?

1 more reply

throwaway669206y ago· 1 in thread

When I first read this I couldn’t think of a good use case. Then the example shown seemed like something I deal with all the time and wish I could do. But then I realized I would need to remember to add reloading to the range before I commit to the long loop I wish to change. Pretty damn cool though.

If it doesn’t add much overhead this would be amusing for something like game dev, swapping out how the game works while running it.

ken6y ago

This is how Lisp developers have worked for decades. It's been used for games before, too, e.g., https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_Oriented_Assembly_Lisp

civilian6y ago· 1 in thread

It'd be cool to be able to use this as a method decorator too!

julvoOP6y ago

Brilliant idea. That would make it useful for Keras, too, using decorated callbacks during training

Waterluvian6y ago· 1 in thread

Django's development mode aka "runserver" behaves a lot like this (as does a ton of different Node/JavaScript systems, many of which are much more precise on what sub-components to actually re-load). It's a big win for development pacing.

Being able to loop a specific segment of code looks like a great tool for my toolbox when writing data processing code, particularly for spatial data. I will have an input dataset and be iterating on the algorithm(s) as I watch the output (often rendered in QGIS) update dynamically but requiring me to re-run the test script.

civilian6y ago

Agreed, but to clarify-- django's runserver is a simple restart process upon file change. Webservers don't have heavy startup costs, so that's fine.

Being able to modify code during a run, where it has a heavy startup cost, is a different beast. I also wonder if Django's runserver could incorporate something like `reloading`, for even speedier reloads?

ovi2566y ago

This is great work, I could not believe the fact that it keeps state (like the current epoch number, and of course all the current model state). Makes Python even more dynamic.

Nice that you could condense it to less than 100 lines of Python!

noobiemcfoob6y ago

Really nice tool! I often develop in a similar pattern (though not quite as functional) using IPython and it's %autoreload magic. This looks a lot cleaner.

kaffeemitsahne6y ago

Could be very nice for live coding music/visuals etc.

technicalbard6y ago

Ah, something Common Lisp has had for over 30 years.

yomansat6y ago

FYI there's also reload(module) which is a built-in function. One great use-case I've come across is in developing a network proxy for game packet interception, see:

https://youtu.be/iApNzWZG-10?t=641

kazinator6y ago

Change Bourne shell code while it's running:

  $ vi ~/.functions   # fix
  $ . ~/.functions    # load latest

potta_coffee6y ago

Python is almost as good as Lisp now.

1 more reply

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39 comments

33 comments · 15 top-level

uryga6y ago· 4 in thread

i wrote something similar a while ago, and it gave rise to a pretty head-scratching bug... my code was doing something like

  if type(x) is Foo:

julvoOP6y ago

uryga6y ago

1 more reply

nerdponx6y ago

Would this still fail if you used the preferred idiom of

    isinstance(x, Foo)

uryga6y ago

Torwald6y ago· 3 in thread

Like ESR said: "these languages [perl, python, ruby] subsequently become more like lisp" (paraphrasing)

marcpaq6y ago

Are you paraphrasing ESR paraphrasing Greenspun's Tenth Rule of Programming?

"Any sufficiently complicated C or Fortran program contains an ad-hoc, informally-specified bug-ridden slow implementation of half of Common Lisp."

Ref: http://philip.greenspun.com/research/

P.S. This is not a comment on TFA. Congratulations to the author on making Python even more interactive.

Torwald6y ago

I am not so sure anymore where I read it. This is interesting:

https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-January/03...

It refers to this, I guess. http://www.paulgraham.com/lispfaq1.html?viewfullsite=1

"If you look at these languages in order, Java, Perl, Python, you notice an interesting pattern. At least, you notice this pattern if you are a Lisp hacker. Each one is progressively more like Lisp."

This is the basic thought. Turns out PG wrote it more explicitly than ESR.

kamyarg6y ago

Who is ESR?

Edit: Ah, it is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_S._Raymond , found after some googling

PerryCox6y ago· 3 in thread

Anyone else getting this error? I tried on Debian 9 and MacOS 10.14.6 after installing via pip.

  import reloading
  Traceback (most recent call last):
    File "<input>", line 1, in <module>
      import reloading
    File "/home/lucas.mccoy/.local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/reloading/__init__.py", line 1, in <module>
    from .reloading import reloading
    File "/home/lucas.mccoy/.local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/reloading/reloading.py", line 87
    exc = exc.replace('File "<string>"', f'File "{fpath}"')
                                                         ^
  SyntaxError: invalid syntax

julvoOP6y ago

It only works with Python 3. Thanks for reminding me that I should add a note to the Readme.

compressedgas6y ago

It does work in Python 2 with the following patch:

    diff --git a/reloading/reloading.py b/reloading/reloading.py
    index 1d28e2f..1a5f981 100644
    --- a/reloading/reloading.py
    +++ b/reloading/reloading.py
    @@ -84,9 +84,10 @@ def reloading(seq):
                 exec(body)
             except Exception:
                 exc = traceback.format_exc()
    -            exc = exc.replace('File "<string>"', f'File "{fpath}"')
    +            exc = exc.replace('File "<string>"', 'File "{}"'.format(fpath))
                 sys.stderr.write(exc + '\n')
    -            input('Edit the file and press return to continue with the next iteration')
    +            print('Edit the file and press return to continue with the next iteration')
    +            sys.stdin.readline()
     
         # copy locals back into the caller's locals
         for k, v in locals().items():

1 more reply

progval6y ago

That's an f-string, so it only works with Python 3.7 and later

1 more reply

_carl_jung6y ago· 3 in thread

This is awesome. A nice improvement would be to have the loop continue with the old code when there are errors (rather than pausing iteration).

rcfox6y ago

That seems like it would be confusing. Imagine trying to track down the source of behaviour that no longer exists in your code...

ianai6y ago

How would that be possible without having to essentially keep track of two files? Nice idea though.

earenndil6y ago

Basically, you just need a double buffer system:

- Always run from the back buffer

- Always scan the updated file into the front buffer

- If the front buffer is fresh AND the front buffer contains no bugs, bufferswap

deehouie6y ago· 2 in thread

This is a great debugging tool for deep learning. Often your code might have been running for 20 hrs on 16 GPUs and you just don't want to restart from scratch again.

mrmuagi6y ago

[1] https://pytorch.org/tutorials/beginner/saving_loading_models...

liuliu6y ago

Yeah. But wouldn't it be nice / cool if the training process is interactive, reproducible, recordable and replayable?

1 more reply

throwaway669206y ago· 1 in thread

If it doesn’t add much overhead this would be amusing for something like game dev, swapping out how the game works while running it.

ken6y ago

This is how Lisp developers have worked for decades. It's been used for games before, too, e.g., https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_Oriented_Assembly_Lisp

civilian6y ago· 1 in thread

It'd be cool to be able to use this as a method decorator too!

julvoOP6y ago

Brilliant idea. That would make it useful for Keras, too, using decorated callbacks during training

Waterluvian6y ago· 1 in thread

civilian6y ago

Agreed, but to clarify-- django's runserver is a simple restart process upon file change. Webservers don't have heavy startup costs, so that's fine.

ovi2566y ago

This is great work, I could not believe the fact that it keeps state (like the current epoch number, and of course all the current model state). Makes Python even more dynamic.

Nice that you could condense it to less than 100 lines of Python!

noobiemcfoob6y ago

Really nice tool! I often develop in a similar pattern (though not quite as functional) using IPython and it's %autoreload magic. This looks a lot cleaner.

kaffeemitsahne6y ago

Could be very nice for live coding music/visuals etc.

technicalbard6y ago

Ah, something Common Lisp has had for over 30 years.

yomansat6y ago

FYI there's also reload(module) which is a built-in function. One great use-case I've come across is in developing a network proxy for game packet interception, see:

https://youtu.be/iApNzWZG-10?t=641

kazinator6y ago

Change Bourne shell code while it's running:

  $ vi ~/.functions   # fix
  $ . ~/.functions    # load latest

potta_coffee6y ago

Python is almost as good as Lisp now.

1 more reply

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse