undefined | Better HN

0 pointsm0zg6y ago0 comments

>> if they want to eat then I can buy something

The reason for this one is that in the US some of the "beggars" aren't really struggling at all. When offered food or whatever else they claim on their placard they're lacking, they will decline. Where I live we have a beggar woman standing on the corner with a placard. Behind that placard, though, she's watching YouTube on her iPhone XS. She's been doing this for at least 5 years now, swapping phones more often than I do. Nearly all of those guys who "ran out of cash to get home" will decline an offer to pay their fare, too.

0 comments

6 comments · 3 top-level

jlokier6y ago· 2 in thread

It costs me less than $1 USD per day to get unlimited, high quality 4G data. $0.83/day to be precise.

My high-end Samsung phone to watch things on comes to $0.91/day. That's because I bought new. If bought second hand I'd expect to pay closer to $0.50/day.

So for $1.74/day, I can watch YouTube all day, on one of the most expensive devices, with a screen so high-end you can't see the pixels. It also gives me communication for free with anyone all around the world, real-time access to financial services, unlimited games, and access to various kinds of work.

It would be very difficult to eat or drink on $1.74/day, and it's vastly less than the cost of renting a home.

Does it really make sense to conclude the beggar women standing on the corner isn't struggling, because she can afford to watch YouTube on a nice phone?

This is the paradox of cheap technology next to expensive housing.

m0zgOP6y ago

People who are struggling typically don't have $1K to drop on a phone, or $30/mo to spend on the data plan. If you believe the news, most people in this country can't scrounge up $400 in case of an emergency, let alone to buy the most expensive phone available. I used to struggle myself when I was a student (not in the US), and it not even in my wildest dreams would I think of spending my food money on overpriced electronics.

jlokier6y ago

Nobody I know has to pay $1k up front to get a good quality device these days.

People who are struggling tend to get the hand-me-down previous-generation devices for nothing or next to nothing, and you don't really need the $30/mo data plan. Older devices are also quite cheap when bought incrementally as part of a phone plan.

For example, I know someone with an iPhone 6 that cost them nothing, and a USD $12.50/mo plan, with unlimited calls and several gigabytes of data allowance.

I agree with you that not everyone who is struggling is able to allocate $30/mo, or even $12.50/mo, but it's low enough that if it's a very justifiable expense (and I would argue that communication and internet when you have to sit or walk every day on the street is extremely justifiable), that level does not impact someone's food consumption enough to justify a random passerby judging they are secretly faking povery.

Spending $1.00/day or $0.40/day on something you'd consider a luxury item, does not mean that person is faking poverty, at least in the US.

news_to_me6y ago· 1 in thread

This is definitely true in many cases, but I'd wager that it's the exception, not the rule. (It also probably depends on location.)

It makes sense to me to refuse to help individuals who seem to be abusing goodwill, but I think this is a poor excuse to refuse helping anyone who asks. I always give the benefit of the doubt to those in need.

If you don't want to give, that's your prerogative, but I don't think this is a good justification for that decision.

RHSeeger6y ago

I disagree. If I can

- give $10 to the person on the corner who has a 20% chance to waste it on alcohol or drugs, or

- give it to a charity that I know does good work

then the second option seems better to me; and that 20% is part of the (reasonable) justification why.

johnchristopher6y ago

It's a given that the rate of success for beggars would plummet if they asked money for anything else than food or transportation anyway.

Iphone of unknown origins ? Free WiFi around ? That could explain it.

Honestly, 90% of homeless people have psychological problems so I take the iphone lady over the grumpy drunkard any day :). Everyone has a different coping mechanism :/.

Now, "some beggars" is likely not "the majority".

Anyway, there are many different ways to help others (giving money to the lady so she can keep being by herself without annoying anyone, giving the social workers or ngo that will try to get to her through other means, etc.). I believe what is important is that we try do something from time to time and we don't forget these are humane beings.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse