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0 pointsstochastic_monk6y ago0 comments

In what way do you think C++ is borrowing the idea of a borrow-checker? Smart pointers pre-date Rust.

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8 comments · 2 top-level

pjmlp6y ago· 4 in thread

Visual Studio and clang are introducing a borrow checker in their static analysis tools. If you leave it on as part of the build you get an similar experience (note on similar, they aren't bullet proof due to language semantics).

There are a couple of conference talks about them.

Naturally smart pointers predate Rust, I used them back when Windows 3.1 was considered recent, alongside OWL.

However they aren't the same thing, introduce runtime overhead and don't prevent use-after-free, or use-after-move.

yakubin6y ago

One thing about static analysis tools that seems to be easily forgotten about in discussions about rust vs other languages is that those tools are trivially ignorable. If your CI pipeline doesn't let you get a binary for a given milestone, because the code doesn't pass static analysis, unit/integration tests etc. people will just disable it for myriads of reasons not the least of which will be "management wanted it to be done by yesterday and it compiles, so it's probably ok", "it's probably false positives again [yeah, right...]", "this is the test that fails from time to time, it's probably nothing". A compilation error is a much better protection from the social pitfalls of programming in a corporate environment. So yup, you have all those wonderful tools at your disposal in the C/C++ which I guarantee you will ignore or be forced to ignore at your peril.

blub6y ago

Using the same logic, you could argue that people will just use unsafe and shared pointers everywhere if they have a deadline and they can't get their code to compile.

This is an organizational problem, not a language / tool problem.

1 more reply

pjmlp6y ago

Actually I tend to refer to it quite often.

However one needs to see the full picture, not only language grammar and semantics.

If I want to create a GUI application today, I will definitely use a mix of .NET ,Java, with C++ for the low level performance bits, because Rust is lacking in that area, in spite of being a safer language.

So, if C++ takes a lesson or two from Rust, and helps developers like myself to keep productive, while improved the security of the whole stack, then so much the better.

And if Rust continues to improve, maybe one day Android Studio, XCode, VS, will provide an end-to-end mixed language experience, and OS frameworks, for Rust just like they do for C++ nowadays.

stochastic_monkOP6y ago

That makes more sense, though not actually part of the language. Smart pointers were the only thing close that came to mind for that reason.

I’ve used the Clang experimental lifetime analyzer on Godbolt, and I welcome improved tooling.

steveklabnik6y ago· 2 in thread

Smart pointers are a different feature than the borrow checker.

I believe your parent is referring to the Core Guidelines and the Guideline Support Library.

pjmlp6y ago

Lifetime analyser from VS and clang.

steveklabnik6y ago

Do you have a link? I thought they were related, but maybe I’m behind the times!

1 more reply

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8 comments · 2 top-level

pjmlp6y ago· 4 in thread

There are a couple of conference talks about them.

Naturally smart pointers predate Rust, I used them back when Windows 3.1 was considered recent, alongside OWL.

However they aren't the same thing, introduce runtime overhead and don't prevent use-after-free, or use-after-move.

yakubin6y ago

blub6y ago

Using the same logic, you could argue that people will just use unsafe and shared pointers everywhere if they have a deadline and they can't get their code to compile.

This is an organizational problem, not a language / tool problem.

1 more reply

pjmlp6y ago

Actually I tend to refer to it quite often.

However one needs to see the full picture, not only language grammar and semantics.

So, if C++ takes a lesson or two from Rust, and helps developers like myself to keep productive, while improved the security of the whole stack, then so much the better.

And if Rust continues to improve, maybe one day Android Studio, XCode, VS, will provide an end-to-end mixed language experience, and OS frameworks, for Rust just like they do for C++ nowadays.

stochastic_monkOP6y ago

That makes more sense, though not actually part of the language. Smart pointers were the only thing close that came to mind for that reason.

I’ve used the Clang experimental lifetime analyzer on Godbolt, and I welcome improved tooling.

steveklabnik6y ago· 2 in thread

Smart pointers are a different feature than the borrow checker.

I believe your parent is referring to the Core Guidelines and the Guideline Support Library.

pjmlp6y ago

Lifetime analyser from VS and clang.

steveklabnik6y ago

Do you have a link? I thought they were related, but maybe I’m behind the times!

1 more reply

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse