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0 pointsdkersten6y ago0 comments

C++ is a complex beast and while I quite like working in it, I'm finding that the latest versions (17 and 20) are filled with features that I'm having trouble understanding. The surface for errors is also huge. I've been programming in C++ since about 2002 and I feel quite proficient in it, but, if given the option, I'll use something that is both safer/less error prone and more productive (and I say that as someone whose argued right here that C++11 and beyond is a very productive language).

Beyond that and what sibling comment said, the author is known for creating various languages, so he clearly enjoys doing it and is making this language for himself.

I have never understood why there's always somebody complaining that new languages are unnecessary when a new language is shown on HN. I personally love seeing new languages. I also recently went on a language hunt for something that met a specific need for a side project I'm working on and I came away empty handed because I couldn't find something that met my criteria[1], so I'm always on the lookout for something that might.

[1] In case somebody has any suggestions for me, I want something with Clojure-like immutable data structures as a default (or something similar, at least), is native compiled to reasonably efficient and low footprint binaries (but is not as complex as Rust or Haskell), is a functional language (but with prettier syntax than OCaml, which was almost my choice, but when I started reading example code, its a complex mess of symbols <insert perl joke>). And... it needs reasonable library support... (at a minimum I need to be able to respond to HTTP requests, make HTTP requests, parse and generate JSON and talk to postgres, ideally using SQL and not an ORM). Haskell is probably my best bet, but I don't have the energy to learn all of its complex features.

0 comments

sytelus6y ago

I'm not against creating new languages. In fact the Lobster language is something I would want (although current syntax is bit repulsive). Python with static types but without getting in the way is pure gold. The problem is that creating interpreter/compiler is one tiny little part of creating language. Much bigger task is creating vast number of libraries that every other popular languages have. Think about everything from numpy to scipy to graphics to networking to web frameworks to OS APIs... Another bigger part is creating tooling and interoperatibility - everything from debugger, refactoring, linting, IDEs, CI, docgen etc. Now put on the top of it all the reusable code that millions of people have already written spending billions of hours in existing languages.

Without large teams working for years, its very hard for a new languages to break in to general use. There are ofcourse outliers and you can get lucky - but then you have to be terribly lucky. So the end result is that 99.9% of languages just die or become hobby project for a person regardless of their features, benefits, beauty or aesthetics. Again, nothing wrong with becoming personal hobby project but if my goal was to create game engines that becomes force in the industry, I would probably not start by creating entirely new language.

I'm not experienced as much as the author, so this is my personal opinion and likely not very well informed. I writing this just because I see several people spending years in creating new languages while their goals have been something else. They dream about repeating success of Java while not realizing how rare it is. After they finish their labor of love, I wonder if they find it depressing to become just line item in the list of dead programming languages. What if they would have actually focused on their original goal instead with emphasis on adding new powerful features that integrates and plays well with existing stuff? It's sure not as sexy and respectable as being father (or mother) of new language but has much higher chance of generating desired impact.

Aardappel6y ago

You are not wrong. But you are assuming every language author must be wanting to become the next mainstream language. I am already aware Lobster will unlikely be that, and I am fine with it. I am having a ton of fun developing it, and I have used it for many projects. I do not want to have more impact by working on something more boring :)