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0 pointsdragontamer7y ago0 comments

To be fair, when you have $100 Million, the goal of the game is not "growth", but holding onto that money.

$100 million isn't much different from $108 Million (8% gains over the year)... or even $500 Million. In both cases, its still more than enough money to live on for the rest of your life. The S&P 500 has dropped 50% in the past (ie: 2008), and it doesn't make sense to risk that much money on that.

You can't use bank accounts: FDIC insurance only covers $200k per bank. You'd literally need 5000 different bank accounts to hold $100 Million safely. So what do you put it into?

Answer: things that don't grow as quickly as an S&P500 fund. Things that are safer: municipal bonds, international (German, Japan) bonds to hedge the dollar, and US Bonds. Maybe some high-quality corporate debt, like Apple's debt, and maybe a real-estate project or two.

All of which probably returns less than the stock market. But your $100 Million will still be there in the next crisis. That's not necessarily true for an S&P500 fund.

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Finally, the average volume of Vanguard Total Market ETF is only ~3-million (at a price of ~130 or so). Which means that Vanguard Total Market ETF only has ~$300 Million changed each day.

If you pump $100 Million into an ETF with only $300 Million worth of daily average volume, what do you think will happen? You'll over-centralize the price and get a bad deal. Its not easy to move $100 Million, even into a major fund like Vanguard's Total Market ETF, without a manager.

At $100 Million+ size portfolios, you need to start thinking of Dark Pools of Liquidity (ie: somewhat hiding the order book). So that when you execute the buy order, the wolves of Wall Street won't own you.

$100 Million+ accounts don't work the same as a normal account. Pump that into the market in one day, and the price will rise dramatically. Sell that in one day, and the price will drop dramatically (losing a % of your value on both legs of the transaction). Having an expert guide you, so that you can minimize Bid/Ask issues, is essential.

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dgacmu7y ago

Vanguard's AUM grew by about 1 trillion last year. This hypothetical 100M is 1/3rd of a day of that - and one almost certainly doesn't move all of it in a single day. Nor is one likely to keep all of it in a single fund. Once you have a bog-standard stocks/bonds/cash/maybe RE split, 100M isn't moving the market. I think you're off by an order of magnitude.

Where you're right, of course, is that 100M justifies considerably greater attention to the money management. But the biggest focus is tax efficiency, not the micro details of the market.

trevyn7y ago

>You can't use bank accounts: FDIC insurance only covers $200k per bank. You'd literally need 5000 different bank accounts to hold $100 Million safely.

Not that it’s a good idea, but there are other ways to insure cash than the FDIC.

One example, apparently Massachusetts offers unlimited insurance for banks: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depositors_Insurance_Fund

(Also, 100M / 200k = 500, not 5000)

thaumasiotes7y ago

Massachusetts?

> Q: Is the DIF a federal or state agency?

> A: No. The DIF is a private, industry-sponsored insurance company and is not backed by the federal government or the Commonwealth of Massachusetts.

module00007y ago

Other side of the coin here..you can take that 1 million USD and dump it in a single order into the ES - you won't move it more than 1, 2, or maybe 3 ticks. This assumes you are using full day margin rates - if you are using overnight rates, you won't move it a single tick. Securities and ETF's are amateur hour for real sums of money. You'll need hundreds of millions, or billions, to move markets with the depth of the ES, ZB, TN, and other commodity futures.

TuringNYC7y ago

>>> You can't use bank accounts: FDIC insurance only covers $200k per bank. You'd literally need 5000 different bank accounts to hold $100 Million safely. So what do you put it into?

Interestingly, there is a way to easily do that. The first project of my career (back in 2002, and still active!) was at a FinTech startup (https://www.promnetwork.com/solutions/depositors) with a product (https://www.cdars.com/) that does this transparently by opening up all the bank accounts and doing the map-reduce for you! Single statement, fully FDIC insured.

...and there are always t-bills

wpietri7y ago

> To be fair, when you have $100 Million, the goal of the game is not "growth", but holding onto that money.

What's your evidence for that? Sure, they don't want to lose, but nobody does. And if anybody likes to get richer, it is pretty clearly rich people. Even the charity-focused ones want to keep increasing their resources, as that lets them have more impact.

dragontamerOP7y ago

> What's your evidence for that?

The worldwide bond / debt market exceeds $100 Trillion. While the worldwide stock market is only $69 Trillion (sum of top 60 exchanges)

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/all-of-the-worlds-stock-exc...

It is clear that Bonds are more popular than Stocks, by a factor of ~50% or so. The rich are buying up debt in far greater numbers than stocks. And EVERYONE knows that Bonds make less money.

I know some of it is cultural. My Chinese friends tend to own real-estate. But it seems like around the world, all major investors favor the lower-risks of Bond investing compared to Stocks.

wpietri7y ago

Your evidence for what wealthy individuals do is... the total size of the global markets? What evidence do you have that their portfolio weighting matches that?

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse

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dgacmu7y ago

Where you're right, of course, is that 100M justifies considerably greater attention to the money management. But the biggest focus is tax efficiency, not the micro details of the market.

trevyn7y ago

>You can't use bank accounts: FDIC insurance only covers $200k per bank. You'd literally need 5000 different bank accounts to hold $100 Million safely.

Not that it’s a good idea, but there are other ways to insure cash than the FDIC.

One example, apparently Massachusetts offers unlimited insurance for banks: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depositors_Insurance_Fund

(Also, 100M / 200k = 500, not 5000)

thaumasiotes7y ago

Massachusetts?

> Q: Is the DIF a federal or state agency?

> A: No. The DIF is a private, industry-sponsored insurance company and is not backed by the federal government or the Commonwealth of Massachusetts.

module00007y ago

TuringNYC7y ago

>>> You can't use bank accounts: FDIC insurance only covers $200k per bank. You'd literally need 5000 different bank accounts to hold $100 Million safely. So what do you put it into?

...and there are always t-bills

wpietri7y ago

> To be fair, when you have $100 Million, the goal of the game is not "growth", but holding onto that money.

dragontamerOP7y ago

> What's your evidence for that?

The worldwide bond / debt market exceeds $100 Trillion. While the worldwide stock market is only $69 Trillion (sum of top 60 exchanges)

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/all-of-the-worlds-stock-exc...

It is clear that Bonds are more popular than Stocks, by a factor of ~50% or so. The rich are buying up debt in far greater numbers than stocks. And EVERYONE knows that Bonds make less money.

I know some of it is cultural. My Chinese friends tend to own real-estate. But it seems like around the world, all major investors favor the lower-risks of Bond investing compared to Stocks.

wpietri7y ago

Your evidence for what wealthy individuals do is... the total size of the global markets? What evidence do you have that their portfolio weighting matches that?

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse