Kim Kardashian's Private Firefighters Expose the Fault Lines of America (opens in new tab)

(theatlantic.com)

21 pointsshenanigoat7y ago16 comments

16 comments

Article fails to explore the apparent conflicts of interest, which remain even if you happen to think it's fair for private parties to hire their own firefighters.

For a start, are Kim's team allowed to tap public hydrants? This will reduce pressure available to any public firefighters nearby.

nunez7y ago

I don’t understand the issue here. Couple buys very expensive item that few others purchase; item is very expensive to insure; for hire firefighters are cheaper than replacing the item (and any dependencies) at a loss; insurers dispatch said firefighters to avoid total loss.

Doing this for everyone wouldn’t scale, which is why towns have firefighting units.

Also, people have a weird aversion to insurance for expensive items. So many people (at least on Reddit) advocate against purchasing AppleCare and additional insurance for $1000+ items but balk at the high cost of replacing a broken screen... that’s much cheaper to fix with insurance.

timoth3y7y ago

I think the reason many are both emotionally and logically concerned about this is that see it in the broader context of the growing wealth inequality and life inequality in America.

In principle, having the wealthy rely on their own firefighters, water supply, police force, education system, or medical system should not reduce the quality of said service to the rest of the people, but in practice, it always seems to.

Whenever there is a widespread social problem, its best to solve it for everyone. If the 0.01% are drinking from the same water supply and relying on the same firefighters that we are, it is in their best interest to maintain a high quality of service. Once they have a way to solve that problem for themselves, they are less likely to support using their taxes to improve and maintain these services.

nunez7y ago

In what ways are these private equivalents better than their public counterparts, especially in the US?

elliekelly7y ago

Private firefighters for the wealthy and slave labor fighting the fires for the rest of us. Truly disgusting.

bvxvbxbxb7y ago

most of 13th amendment's text pertains to the slavery loophole that Lincoln signed. It was clearly written to not end slavery, but disadvantage minorities and poor people for a perpetually-immobile and captive workforce that would be nearly as cheap as outright owning people in another form of involuntary captivity.

geezerjay7y ago

> Private firefighters for the wealthy and slave labor fighting the fires for the rest of us.

Actually, your assertion is wrong. It's actually slave labor fighting the fires for everyone, but those who can afford actually have the means to do the firefighting themselves.

Let's put things in perspective: would you believe that there would be no problem if "the wealthy" could not afford or use private firefighters? Why?

craftyguy7y ago

> slave labor

Source? If you are referring to inmates who volunteer to fight fires, then you are just plain wrong.

elliekelly7y ago

I didn't say it was illegal slave labor. But it's absolutely slave labor. Under Federal law its defined as "the services of a person... by means of force, threats of force, physical restraint, or threats of physical restraint to that person or another person."[1] Imprisonment is a physical restraint. If you pull the entire statute you'll notice that consent isn't a defense. That's because consent and coercion are mutually exclusive.

The Thirteenth Amendment abolished slavery and involuntary servitude except as a punishment for crime.

Make no mistake, those "volunteers" are modern day slaves. They may have the blessing of the Constitution, but they're slaves nonetheless. Colorado actually just officially outlawed it last week.[2] A few other sources:

- https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/30/opinion/national-prison-s...

- https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/prison-strike-modern-da...

- https://eji.org/history-racial-injustice-prison-labor

[1] 18 U.S. Code § 1589

[2] https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/11/6/18056408/c...

1 more reply

slow_donkey7y ago

Would it still be an issue if they weren't slaves but well-paid positions?

elliekelly7y ago

Labor is labor and it should be compensated at a market rate based on the value that labor adds. A non-prisoner firefighter earns about $17/hour compares to a prisoner firefighter's $1/hour. Does the non-prisoner fight the fires any better than the prisoner? How about $16/hour better?

bvxvbxbxb7y ago

Fuck Malibu residents and their blocking of beach access, fake signs and generally-selfish chicanery.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse

16 comments

everybodyknows7y ago

Article fails to explore the apparent conflicts of interest, which remain even if you happen to think it's fair for private parties to hire their own firefighters.

For a start, are Kim's team allowed to tap public hydrants? This will reduce pressure available to any public firefighters nearby.

nunez7y ago

Doing this for everyone wouldn’t scale, which is why towns have firefighting units.

timoth3y7y ago

I think the reason many are both emotionally and logically concerned about this is that see it in the broader context of the growing wealth inequality and life inequality in America.

nunez7y ago

In what ways are these private equivalents better than their public counterparts, especially in the US?

elliekelly7y ago

Private firefighters for the wealthy and slave labor fighting the fires for the rest of us. Truly disgusting.

bvxvbxbxb7y ago

geezerjay7y ago

> Private firefighters for the wealthy and slave labor fighting the fires for the rest of us.

Actually, your assertion is wrong. It's actually slave labor fighting the fires for everyone, but those who can afford actually have the means to do the firefighting themselves.

Let's put things in perspective: would you believe that there would be no problem if "the wealthy" could not afford or use private firefighters? Why?

craftyguy7y ago

> slave labor

Source? If you are referring to inmates who volunteer to fight fires, then you are just plain wrong.

elliekelly7y ago

The Thirteenth Amendment abolished slavery and involuntary servitude except as a punishment for crime.

- https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/30/opinion/national-prison-s...

- https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/prison-strike-modern-da...

- https://eji.org/history-racial-injustice-prison-labor

[1] 18 U.S. Code § 1589

[2] https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/11/6/18056408/c...

1 more reply

slow_donkey7y ago

Would it still be an issue if they weren't slaves but well-paid positions?

elliekelly7y ago

bvxvbxbxb7y ago

Fuck Malibu residents and their blocking of beach access, fake signs and generally-selfish chicanery.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse