undefined | Better HN

0 pointstxcwpalpha7y ago0 comments

The specific EAST reactor [1] mentioned in the article is a testbed that will enable new technologies to be used on the ITER project. The ITER project [2] is currently the largest fusion power research project underway (and the largest reactor under construction). ITER's goal is to provide research that enables new technologies to be used on the DEMO project. The DEMO project's goal [3] is to provide commercially available power plants utilizing nuclear fusion.

From ITER's wikipedia page:

>The goal of ITER is to demonstrate the scientific and technological feasibility of fusion energy for peaceful use. It is the latest and largest of more than 100 fusion reactors built since the 1950s. ITER's planned successor, DEMO, is expected to be the first fusion reactor to produce electricity in an experimental environment. DEMO's anticipated success is expected to lead to full-scale electricity-producing fusion power stations and future commercial reactors.

And from DEMO's wikipedia page:

>As a prototype commercial fusion reactor, DEMO could make fusion energy available by 2033.

1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Experimental_Advanced_Supercon...

2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITER

3: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DEMOnstration_Power_Station

0 comments

10 comments · 4 top-level

donkeyd7y ago· 4 in thread

Any idea on how much money we're spending on this?

Also, I can imagine it's a joint project only partially because we can share the cost, I imagine another reason to work together is so that no one country gets this technology first.

Symbiote7y ago

Several billions of Euros, with Europe paying the largest share, but the reactor is in France so we get much of the secondary benefit (i.e. scientists and engineers spending their salaries there, construction work).

http://www.iter.org/faq (several are relevant).

elorant7y ago

Initial budget was €5bn. Current budget is four times that and with completion nowhere near estimates of the final cost are as high as $60bn. Go figure.

If by "we" you mean US's share, that's 9% of total costs. China, India, Japan, Russia, South Korea, and the US are paying 9% each and EU is paying 46%.

donkeyd7y ago

With 'we' I meant every country that's involved, not just my own country.

$60bn is actually surprisingly little for research that could change the future of energy production and possibly society as we know it. To put it into context, the Apollo program cost $200bn in today's money and a high speed train between LA and SF is projected to cost $100bn.

1 more reply

enticeing7y ago

It's interesting to note that on the ITER FAQ page, they mention that 90% of contributions are to be delivered "in-kind" in the form of parts of buildings, instead of cash.

miemo7y ago· 2 in thread

but 2033 is only 15 years away, not 20

Someone7y ago

I think calling 2033 highly unlikely would be an understatement.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITER: ”Initial plasma experiments are scheduled to begin in 2025, with full deuterium–tritium fusion experiments starting in 2035.”

So, according to Wikipedia, DEMO will build on ITER’s results, but will produce energy before ITER’s first real fusion experiment starts.

martinw1117y ago

If global warming will be more significant then is predicted now I believe they will suddenly invest 100x more into this technology. This and nuclear plants are only reasonable way how to have available energy for some 'CO2 removal' projects...

1 more reply

lambdadmitry7y ago

> The DEMO project's goal [3] is to provide commercially available power plants utilizing nuclear fusion

That's not true unfortunately. Yep it's planned to be attached to the grid, but it won't be a production-ready power station. That will be PROTO [1].

Basically the whole schedule slipped more, US pulled out of ITER so they had to scale it down, then it was delayed, so as things stand now DEMO will still be a testbed. Some recent DEMO design notes can be found here [2]. A bit dated, but if anything an optimistic outlook can be found here [3] at page 8. Note that DEMO is though to "resolve" some issues still.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PROTO_(fusion_reactor)

[2]: http://www.firefusionpower.org/NAS_EU_DEMO_Federici.pdf

[3]: https://fire.pppl.gov/eu_demo_Stork_FZK%20.pdf

8bitsrule7y ago

Since the 1970s it's been customary to report that fusion power will happen "in about 25 years". So, traditionally, 2043.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse

0 comments

10 comments · 4 top-level

donkeyd7y ago· 4 in thread

Any idea on how much money we're spending on this?

Also, I can imagine it's a joint project only partially because we can share the cost, I imagine another reason to work together is so that no one country gets this technology first.

Symbiote7y ago

http://www.iter.org/faq (several are relevant).

elorant7y ago

Initial budget was €5bn. Current budget is four times that and with completion nowhere near estimates of the final cost are as high as $60bn. Go figure.

If by "we" you mean US's share, that's 9% of total costs. China, India, Japan, Russia, South Korea, and the US are paying 9% each and EU is paying 46%.

donkeyd7y ago

With 'we' I meant every country that's involved, not just my own country.

1 more reply

enticeing7y ago

It's interesting to note that on the ITER FAQ page, they mention that 90% of contributions are to be delivered "in-kind" in the form of parts of buildings, instead of cash.

miemo7y ago· 2 in thread

but 2033 is only 15 years away, not 20

Someone7y ago

I think calling 2033 highly unlikely would be an understatement.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITER: ”Initial plasma experiments are scheduled to begin in 2025, with full deuterium–tritium fusion experiments starting in 2035.”

So, according to Wikipedia, DEMO will build on ITER’s results, but will produce energy before ITER’s first real fusion experiment starts.

martinw1117y ago

1 more reply

lambdadmitry7y ago

> The DEMO project's goal [3] is to provide commercially available power plants utilizing nuclear fusion

That's not true unfortunately. Yep it's planned to be attached to the grid, but it won't be a production-ready power station. That will be PROTO [1].

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PROTO_(fusion_reactor)

[2]: http://www.firefusionpower.org/NAS_EU_DEMO_Federici.pdf

[3]: https://fire.pppl.gov/eu_demo_Stork_FZK%20.pdf

8bitsrule7y ago

Since the 1970s it's been customary to report that fusion power will happen "in about 25 years". So, traditionally, 2043.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse