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0 pointsTheDong7y ago0 comments

> The FAQ page states "We are explicitly using many features of the linux kernel (bind mounts, namespaces, seccomp, etc) to create the sandbox that Flatpak apps are running in." ... and then it turns out that they aren't, or at least they aren't enforcing it

They are using those features. flatpak has network namespaces for applications that don't need access to the network and bindmounts for applications that use very limited parts of the filesystem.

Sure, in reality many desktop apps have more far-reaching permissions, but all they're saying is that flatpak can make use of those features in some cases.

> This is flat out lying to try and get mindshare

Usually that's just called marketing. I don't think any of the above statements are actually lies in any way though. Can you point to what's actually a lie, or what lie is implied in your mind?

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jessaustin7y ago

The part where they say it's a sandbox, and it doesn't even attempt to be a sandbox. That's a lie.

derefr7y ago

It's a sandbox like Android has a sandbox: each app lists a set of capabilities; the user gets a dialogue on installation where they have to grant those capabilities (or else cancel the install); and then for anything the app tries to do that's not in that set of capabilities, it fails.

A sandbox doesn't mean "you can never do [foo]." A sandbox means "you can never doo [foo] unless the user lets you." Even web browsers (the classical "true sandboxes") have an API that gets you access to the user's microphone, and another for access to their GPS data. There's just a dialogue in between that the user can say "No" to; and, having said no, the content of the tab can't ask again, and just gets denied automatically. That's what makes it a sandbox.

jonstewart7y ago

Is it also like Android's "sandbox" in that every application asks for every permission and the only choice is between "no security" and "can't install anything useful" and inures the user to just click "accept" on everything?

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viraptor7y ago

The system is configured to run apps in a sandbox though - that's completely true. It's the app's part that declares: it needs full access to your home directory to work. If that wasn't possible, we'd get people complaining about apps not working as expected instead. The balance may not be currently on the right side, but they don't lie about what's provided.

It's like standard Linux permissions. If you install an app which creates its directories with mode 0777, or install a package which has a suid binary, you don't complain that Linux offers no file access control. That's the author's or packager's fault.

yzmtf20087y ago

“Sandbox” and “full access to your home directory” doesn’t compute. That’s literally one of the biggest reasons to sandbox applications.

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TheDongOP7y ago

"sandbox" is an ill defined term, but what flatpak provides fits it perfectly well.

A sandbox is an environment where capabilities can be restricted in a set of ways.

The javascript sandbox lets you manipulate the website and make network requests, but not access arbitrary files.

The flatpak sandbox is configured per-app and can prevent all fs access, all file io (with seccomp), all networking, etc.

The article is simply pointing out that most popular applications do not use the sandbox features well.

That doesn't mean flatpak does not have the sandbox they claim to, merely that it does not mesh well with many popular apps currently.

I still see nothing that merits the word "lie".

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