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0 pointsrusk7y ago0 comments

You think it was blindingly obvious to Apple that they would have had to pay this tax eventually? Seems to me and everyone else it was an attempt at a stroke. You're alleging that Apple were a passive actor.

You saw that thing in the ICIJ Jersey papers leak where Apple went round the world actively seeking jurisdictions that would twist their tax rules to suit them?

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/apple-s-cash-mountain-ho...

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oliwarner7y ago

No, I'm not alleging Apple was passive here, at all

I'm saying that when you get a deal this good —however you ended up there— you should not be surprised when it turns out that it was illegal.

Of course Apple shopped around. But if somebody offered to sell you $20 bills for half a cent each, would you suspect something dodgy? That's the scale of the issue here.

SparklingCotton7y ago

Apple should be forced to pay back 10x what they gained in this illegal deal.

It's bleedingly obvious that it's illegal to be taxed differently than other companies. Paying back €13bn is nothing.

Companies that "make deals" on tax anywhere in the world should be effectively banned from the EU market. It's pure evil. Or pay 10x of any gain they have made anywhere in the world by "making deals" on tax, thereby undercutting fair competition in a free market.

oliwarner7y ago

Playing states against each other is par for the course in the US. Each state can offer wildly different tax structures and incentives, and they all do, because each wants to be the state government that oversaw "6000 new jobs". They've seen similar issues with the collection of sales tax, when one company can "operate" over many state lines.

But saying "hey, that's obviously corruption" isn't enough. We need a good way to restructure tax collection so that the right people get it.

Multinationals paying Luxembourg (Paypal, eBay) or Ireland (Apple, Amazon) for all revenue and operations from the entire EU is wrong, no? How do you fix that?

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ruskOP7y ago

It's bleedin' blindingly obvious that this is all a matter of corporate strategy. Yeah they should be fined for sure, but as many are keen to point out they keep to the letter of the law. That's not to say the EC couldn't enact some kind of retroactive legislation but that wouldn't be likely as they have their own "special interests" to look after too ...

ruskOP7y ago

I'm getting where you're coming from now.

This is just a drop in the ocean for the total amount of wealth that is protected with these schemes. In the $20 for ¢0.5 picture this probably amounts to ¢50. They're still making off with the other $19.49. Though arbitration would probably round that up.

An acceptable loss.

SparklingCotton7y ago

It should have been obvious to Apple that they were receiving illegal subsidies, given that they were taxed differently than other companies.

"The Irish government agreed a deal with Apple in 1991 to only tax a certain bracket of its earnings" http://uk.businessinsider.com/how-apple-managed-to-get-its-t...

To me it's pretty obvious that Tim Cook will burn in hell :-).

ruskOP7y ago

> It should have been obvious to Apple

Though tax avoidance was a corporate strategy and they actually sought these deals it would not have been obvious that this was technically illegal. The Irish Revenue Commissioners told them it was legal as an interpretation of Irish law, which was incorrect.

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oliwarner7y ago

No, I'm not alleging Apple was passive here, at all

I'm saying that when you get a deal this good —however you ended up there— you should not be surprised when it turns out that it was illegal.

Of course Apple shopped around. But if somebody offered to sell you $20 bills for half a cent each, would you suspect something dodgy? That's the scale of the issue here.

SparklingCotton7y ago

Apple should be forced to pay back 10x what they gained in this illegal deal.

It's bleedingly obvious that it's illegal to be taxed differently than other companies. Paying back €13bn is nothing.

oliwarner7y ago

But saying "hey, that's obviously corruption" isn't enough. We need a good way to restructure tax collection so that the right people get it.

Multinationals paying Luxembourg (Paypal, eBay) or Ireland (Apple, Amazon) for all revenue and operations from the entire EU is wrong, no? How do you fix that?

1 more reply

ruskOP7y ago

I'm getting where you're coming from now.

An acceptable loss.

SparklingCotton7y ago

It should have been obvious to Apple that they were receiving illegal subsidies, given that they were taxed differently than other companies.

"The Irish government agreed a deal with Apple in 1991 to only tax a certain bracket of its earnings" http://uk.businessinsider.com/how-apple-managed-to-get-its-t...

To me it's pretty obvious that Tim Cook will burn in hell :-).

ruskOP7y ago

> It should have been obvious to Apple

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse