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0 pointsmarcus_holmes7y ago0 comments

I think it works the other way around.

If one of Facebook's users (anywhere in the world) posts a piece of copyrighted material, and that material is served to a European user, then the copyright owner can take Facebook to court for copyright infringement under this legislation. I'm not even sure the owner has to be a European entity.

European law considers the offence to occur in the browser's country, not the server's country (hence Yahoo having to block all references to Nazi memorabilia as a result of a French court case held in France under French law despite Yahoo not being a French company).

Mind you, the US takes the same viewpoint, hence them suing to extradite Mr Dotcom from New Zealand for trial in the US for transgressing US law. The fact that he wasn't a US citizen, MegaUpload wasn't a US company, and he had committed no crime according to New Zealand law didn't matter. The US still considered his breach of copyright to have occurred on US soil, so he had committed a crime on US soil.

At least that's how I read it... I am not a lawyer.

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9 comments · 2 top-level

strictnein7y ago· 5 in thread

> European law considers

Thankfully foreign laws don't magically propagate over the internet, even if a citizen of a country happens to point their web browser at your server.

infimum7y ago

GP explicitly stated a case where the US did the same. So for all intents and purposes the law does propagate 'magically' over the internet. Well, at least US law does.

specializeded7y ago

The EU isn’t the US, and the US isn’t New Zealand.

1 more reply

fauigerzigerk7y ago

IANAL, but I think if you have a business establishment in a country then yes it may propagate in some shape or form, but I don't know the details. For instance, it may depend on distinctions such as subsidiary vs branch office.

Facebook does have a business establishment within the EU. They are selling ads in Europe that are delivered to EU users. There is no way that Facebook can claim not to be a European company in some sense.

mirimir7y ago

Right. And so, to escape the EU Copyright Directive, they would need to exit the EU entirely, utterly, completely, etc.

Maybe that seems extreme and unlikely. But consider. What would Facebook be left with, if users couldn't share anything?

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marcus_holmesOP7y ago

As I said: yes, yes they do exactly that.

mirimir7y ago· 2 in thread

> ... and that material is served to a European user ...

But in this scenario, Facebook would be blocking all EU users, based on IP address, DNS lookup, and so on. Just like Netflix blocks non-US users from accessing US-licensed media.

So EU users could only access Facebook through Tor, or VPN services. And Facebook could still argue (and make sure that it held no conflicting data) that it knowingly served no users in the EU.

llukas7y ago

Why are you describing situation where VPN is needed to access Facebook as bad thing?

I set up ublock/pi-hole for a reason :) If they GTFO EU then even better as EU pages won't load their spy scripts.

mirimir7y ago

I agree that using Facebook via VPNs and/or Tor is prudent. If you must use it at all. Because, even if you obfuscate persona and location, it's still harvesting data on social connectivity. And even if everyone involved obfuscates persona and location, that's still too much data to share with a single entity.

So anyway, Facebook was just an example. To show how social media etc providers could work around the EU Copyright Directive. By blocking access to all users known to be in the EU. If there are no apparent EU users, arguably the law doesn't apply. But then, IANAL.

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9 comments · 2 top-level

strictnein7y ago· 5 in thread

> European law considers

Thankfully foreign laws don't magically propagate over the internet, even if a citizen of a country happens to point their web browser at your server.

infimum7y ago

GP explicitly stated a case where the US did the same. So for all intents and purposes the law does propagate 'magically' over the internet. Well, at least US law does.

specializeded7y ago

The EU isn’t the US, and the US isn’t New Zealand.

1 more reply

fauigerzigerk7y ago

mirimir7y ago

Right. And so, to escape the EU Copyright Directive, they would need to exit the EU entirely, utterly, completely, etc.

Maybe that seems extreme and unlikely. But consider. What would Facebook be left with, if users couldn't share anything?

1 more reply

marcus_holmesOP7y ago

As I said: yes, yes they do exactly that.

mirimir7y ago· 2 in thread

> ... and that material is served to a European user ...

But in this scenario, Facebook would be blocking all EU users, based on IP address, DNS lookup, and so on. Just like Netflix blocks non-US users from accessing US-licensed media.

So EU users could only access Facebook through Tor, or VPN services. And Facebook could still argue (and make sure that it held no conflicting data) that it knowingly served no users in the EU.

llukas7y ago

Why are you describing situation where VPN is needed to access Facebook as bad thing?

I set up ublock/pi-hole for a reason :) If they GTFO EU then even better as EU pages won't load their spy scripts.

mirimir7y ago

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse