US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data (opens in new tab)

(zdnet.com)

128 pointsnikunjk7y ago23 comments

23 comments

Previously discussed 3 days ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17046632

Despite the dupe factor, I support continuing to raise awareness about this. The fact that it happened at all and continues to be permitted is super messed up.

Shocking abuse of information on part of the carriers, data re-sellers, and ultimately bottom feeding scumbags who let the law run wild and unchecked.

harlanji7y ago

I got the feeling something like this was going on when collection calls became responsive to my location changes the majority of the time. Imagine having no real enjoyment in life, being working poor, and each time you do leave the house you’re greeted with a reminder that you’re in debt and they’re watching you. I don’t doubt the depths of what we’ll find companies doing with access like this.

217y ago

Can someone with a US phone see if this try-before-you-buy page works?

https://www.locationsmart.com/try/

It would be fucking unbelievable if you were able to track any US phone number like that, no ID, no court order.

ghouse7y ago

Yes, it does work. The page reports its accuracy within 2.26 miles. Measuring on Google Earth, it was off by 0.42 miles, so well within its stated accuracy on the result.

It did require me to respond "YES" to an SMS before the website provided the detail. SMS text was:

LocationSmart: Reply YES or YES LS to confirm consent for cloud location & messaging demo. Reply HELP for help, Reply STOP to cancel. Msg&Data Rates may apply.

drewnick7y ago

I just tested it with two phones in different states and it was within .54 miles.

An SMS consent was required first. (Reply YES to consent)

ch4s37y ago

I just tried it, and It worked to within about 60m of where I'm sitting. I am not pleased.

heroprotagonist7y ago

Yes. It provided a radius, with the center ~6 blocks away from me.

Ugh...

greatingale7y ago

Yes it works. it send you a sms which you have to reply yes to consent. It then gave me the correct location. yes it is unbelievable. crazy.

jdc7y ago

Works on my Canadian phone

15charlimit7y ago

Other responses indicate that the recipient/target has to opt into their location being shown via an SMS, so I fail to understand the outrage assuming the same requirement exists for the non-trial version.

kevin_thibedeau7y ago

You think consent is being asked for on the non-trial version? This is the service LEOs use to track down fugitives dumb enough to carry their phone. They aren't going to ask for any consent.

X-Istence7y ago

Yup, was able to track my phone to within a block.

bassman90007y ago

Kevin Bankston, director of New America's Open Technology Institute, explained in a phone call that the Electronic Communications Privacy Act only restricts telecom companies from disclosing data to the government. It doesn't restrict disclosure to other companies, who then may disclose that same data to the government.

He called that loophole "one of the biggest gaps in US privacy law."

No shit.

haZard_OS7y ago

I never turn location services on and I run on mobile data (rather than WiFi) almost every moment of the day.

My location was correctly determined within the specified range. sigh Ridiculous.

kevin_thibedeau7y ago

This doesn't involve location services. The more interesting question is if it works on dual SIM phones for both SIMs.

kerng7y ago

Turning off cell reception might mitigate it. They seem to use cell triangulation to determine where you are. But maybe also other techniques. That way to locate someone has been possible basically since the beginning of mobile phones - even before internet usage became a thing.

monksy7y ago

They've been doing that. You can even pay for access. (Marketing companies use it for when you sign up for "deal marketing" via the shortcodes)

crtasm7y ago

Always reassuring to see visible HTML tags in tools like this.

shkkmo7y ago

While it does indicate that their QA efforts are underwhelming, it also shows that they at least know the importance of escaping strings...or are using a tool that does some of that for them.

crtasm7y ago

That's a very good point.

trumped7y ago

You can choose not to carry a cellphone, but sometimes you have to use your car which has a lot of the same "features" as a cellphone. How can you disable all that stuff on a car?

nafizh7y ago

This is unbelievable, wow!! So, when I sign up with a cell carrier, is it in their terms and conditions that they can sell my location data? How is this legal?

ycombonator7y ago

Is there anyone from EFF here take notice ?

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse

23 comments

jaytaylor7y ago

Previously discussed 3 days ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17046632

Despite the dupe factor, I support continuing to raise awareness about this. The fact that it happened at all and continues to be permitted is super messed up.

Shocking abuse of information on part of the carriers, data re-sellers, and ultimately bottom feeding scumbags who let the law run wild and unchecked.

harlanji7y ago

217y ago

Can someone with a US phone see if this try-before-you-buy page works?

https://www.locationsmart.com/try/

It would be fucking unbelievable if you were able to track any US phone number like that, no ID, no court order.

ghouse7y ago

Yes, it does work. The page reports its accuracy within 2.26 miles. Measuring on Google Earth, it was off by 0.42 miles, so well within its stated accuracy on the result.

It did require me to respond "YES" to an SMS before the website provided the detail. SMS text was:

LocationSmart: Reply YES or YES LS to confirm consent for cloud location & messaging demo. Reply HELP for help, Reply STOP to cancel. Msg&Data Rates may apply.

drewnick7y ago

I just tested it with two phones in different states and it was within .54 miles.

An SMS consent was required first. (Reply YES to consent)

ch4s37y ago

I just tried it, and It worked to within about 60m of where I'm sitting. I am not pleased.

heroprotagonist7y ago

Yes. It provided a radius, with the center ~6 blocks away from me.

Ugh...

greatingale7y ago

Yes it works. it send you a sms which you have to reply yes to consent. It then gave me the correct location. yes it is unbelievable. crazy.

jdc7y ago

Works on my Canadian phone

15charlimit7y ago

kevin_thibedeau7y ago

You think consent is being asked for on the non-trial version? This is the service LEOs use to track down fugitives dumb enough to carry their phone. They aren't going to ask for any consent.

X-Istence7y ago

Yup, was able to track my phone to within a block.

bassman90007y ago

He called that loophole "one of the biggest gaps in US privacy law."

No shit.

haZard_OS7y ago

I never turn location services on and I run on mobile data (rather than WiFi) almost every moment of the day.

My location was correctly determined within the specified range. sigh Ridiculous.

kevin_thibedeau7y ago

This doesn't involve location services. The more interesting question is if it works on dual SIM phones for both SIMs.

kerng7y ago

monksy7y ago

They've been doing that. You can even pay for access. (Marketing companies use it for when you sign up for "deal marketing" via the shortcodes)

crtasm7y ago

Always reassuring to see visible HTML tags in tools like this.

shkkmo7y ago

While it does indicate that their QA efforts are underwhelming, it also shows that they at least know the importance of escaping strings...or are using a tool that does some of that for them.

crtasm7y ago

That's a very good point.

trumped7y ago

You can choose not to carry a cellphone, but sometimes you have to use your car which has a lot of the same "features" as a cellphone. How can you disable all that stuff on a car?

nafizh7y ago

This is unbelievable, wow!! So, when I sign up with a cell carrier, is it in their terms and conditions that they can sell my location data? How is this legal?

ycombonator7y ago

Is there anyone from EFF here take notice ?

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse