Rolls-Royce and Google Cloud attempt to make autonomous ships a reality (opens in new tab)

(rolls-royce.com)

32 pointspmulv8y ago12 comments

12 comments

12 comments · 3 top-level

sien8y ago· 5 in thread

Does anyone have an idea of how much the cost of staff is for a container ship?

With crews of ~15-25 per ship and most of the staff coming from low wage countries is it significant?

I thought you could pull this out of a publicly listed shipping company's annual general report. Here is a list: http://www.ship-technology.com/features/featuremega-shippers... Largest is the Danish company Maersk @ http://investor.maersk.com/financials.cfm however the report for 2016 does not show crew overheads as a separate line item in the annual financials. Interesting they already own APM Terminal which has annual profits of USD$1B. Second largest is Swiss and private so no documents available. Third is French CMA CGM @ https://www.cma-cgm.com/finance which includes the statement Running costs, which typically include crew and technical maintenance, approximate 13% of the total charter commitments as they relate to large vessels with relatively low running costs compared to the capital cost and due to the effect of bareboat commitments. (regarding leased vessels)

steve198y ago

Crews are unionised and paid a lot of money. This would not replace all crew members. You would still need ship engineers to maintain the ship and electrical engineers to monitor and repair refrigeration containers (they will attempt to fix them at sea if they mulfunction). So you would still need a cook to feed them.

So maybe you cut the crew in half, and significantly reduce risk of accidents, piracy, etc.

user59944618y ago

That's probably not possible to cut in half if there are already as little as 15 people.

There should be a requirement for a big ship to have a few people awake and ready at all time. It's gonna take about that much people just to have a 24/7 rotation.

briffle8y ago

if you have crew, you also have crew supporting things such as: kitchens, sleeping areas, gathering areas, rescue boats, toilets, etc. All of those could add more space for cargo.

I also imagine not having to load up food, supplies, etc would also save time/effort. You could also go as slow as you want (saving fuel) depending on your cargo..

1 more reply

sien8y ago

OK, found this:

https://people.hofstra.edu/geotrans/eng/ch3en/conc3en/contai...

It seems to be about 1M of 9M in operating costs and is dwarfed by fuel charges.

It's also clear from answers around here that's it's not clear that you can easily make the ship fully autonomous anyway.

steve198y ago· 3 in thread

They will fail not because it cannot be done, but no union member will load these ships nor unload them. The real problem is not going to be technical, it will be political.

The only way it could be done now is create non union ports on both ends of the route and never have your ships dock at unionised ports, where they would be blacklisted for ever going to a non unionised port and might even suffer sabotage.

Stevedore unions around the world cooperate with each other and are all corrupt, have rampart theft and use violence to bully members and non members into submission. You seen The Wire?

I worked in the shipping industry. Never again.

deevolution8y ago

That process of loading/unloading will probably be automated away too.

rak00n8y ago

Isn't the union for loading and unloading different from union for shipping crews? Why'd these two unions cooperate?

steve198y ago

"Workers of the world, unite!"

You are correct that the stevedore unions are different from the seafarers unions.

The issue is that they cooperate legally or illegally. They also cooperate internationally.

Its the brotherhood above all else.

(and I use the gendered language intentionally because I have never come across a more misogynistic group of people in my life)

DannyB28y ago· 1 in thread

Will robot ships be more attractive to pirates? Or can the ships autonomously use lethal force to repel pirates?

What about if they encounter another ship in distress?

Or people in the water in distress?

Who then turn out to be a pirate ruse?

ceejayoz8y ago

> Will robot ships be more attractive to pirates?

I'd guess not. They typically attack ships to ransom the crew. No crew, no ransom. No crew to threaten either, and no user-accessible controls.

> What about if they encounter another ship in distress?

Relay the call. They could potentially carry deployable life rafts, retractable ladders, stocked rescue shelters too.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse

12 comments

12 comments · 3 top-level

sien8y ago· 5 in thread

Does anyone have an idea of how much the cost of staff is for a container ship?

With crews of ~15-25 per ship and most of the staff coming from low wage countries is it significant?

contingencies8y ago

steve198y ago

So maybe you cut the crew in half, and significantly reduce risk of accidents, piracy, etc.

user59944618y ago

That's probably not possible to cut in half if there are already as little as 15 people.

There should be a requirement for a big ship to have a few people awake and ready at all time. It's gonna take about that much people just to have a 24/7 rotation.

briffle8y ago

if you have crew, you also have crew supporting things such as: kitchens, sleeping areas, gathering areas, rescue boats, toilets, etc. All of those could add more space for cargo.

I also imagine not having to load up food, supplies, etc would also save time/effort. You could also go as slow as you want (saving fuel) depending on your cargo..

1 more reply

sien8y ago

OK, found this:

https://people.hofstra.edu/geotrans/eng/ch3en/conc3en/contai...

It seems to be about 1M of 9M in operating costs and is dwarfed by fuel charges.

It's also clear from answers around here that's it's not clear that you can easily make the ship fully autonomous anyway.

steve198y ago· 3 in thread

They will fail not because it cannot be done, but no union member will load these ships nor unload them. The real problem is not going to be technical, it will be political.

Stevedore unions around the world cooperate with each other and are all corrupt, have rampart theft and use violence to bully members and non members into submission. You seen The Wire?

I worked in the shipping industry. Never again.

deevolution8y ago

That process of loading/unloading will probably be automated away too.

rak00n8y ago

Isn't the union for loading and unloading different from union for shipping crews? Why'd these two unions cooperate?

steve198y ago

"Workers of the world, unite!"

You are correct that the stevedore unions are different from the seafarers unions.

The issue is that they cooperate legally or illegally. They also cooperate internationally.

Its the brotherhood above all else.

(and I use the gendered language intentionally because I have never come across a more misogynistic group of people in my life)

DannyB28y ago· 1 in thread

Will robot ships be more attractive to pirates? Or can the ships autonomously use lethal force to repel pirates?

What about if they encounter another ship in distress?

Or people in the water in distress?

Who then turn out to be a pirate ruse?

ceejayoz8y ago

> Will robot ships be more attractive to pirates?

I'd guess not. They typically attack ships to ransom the crew. No crew, no ransom. No crew to threaten either, and no user-accessible controls.

> What about if they encounter another ship in distress?

Relay the call. They could potentially carry deployable life rafts, retractable ladders, stocked rescue shelters too.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse