Do you have a concrete example of what you ran into? What do you mean by "secure install"?

on osx its just a matter on installing docker4mac and other linux distributions has pre-made packages. I am a linux noob and I was able to setup a 20 machine cluster with swarm trivially on centos7.

I was acutally surprised that I was able to do that so trivially, given I have minimal linux admin experience if any.

However, Swarm is undeniably simpler to work with unless you have very specific requirements that only K8S provides. The yml file is incredibly simpler.

Docker Swarm is the Kotlin to Kubernetes' Java. It's a much pleasanter and much less intimidating way to build production systems that scale pretty well.

Kubernetes needs you to have load balancers setup which can talk K8S ingress. Bare metal setup for k8s is a huge effort (and I have stuck long enough on #sig-metal to know) as compared to Swarm.

You should try out Swarm - you might choose not to use it, but you will enjoy the experience.

You're absolutely correct. Kubernetes has its advantages, even in a single-node setup. What many others are pointing out is that it also has significant disadvantages, too.

> but then you want to control it remotely, right?

By the way, I do talk to Docker (Swarm mode or standalone) deployments remotely, forwarding the socket via SSH.

    ssh -nNT -L /tmp/example.docker.sock:/run/docker.sock example.org
    docker -H unix:///tmp/example.docker.sock info

But, really, there is Ansible for this. Declare `docker_service` and get it deployed (or updated) as a part of the playbook. And ELK (with logging.driver=gelf for the containers or application-level) for logging.

(BTW, what's nice about K8s is that IIRC it allows to exec into pods with just `kubectl exec`. With Swarm you need some script to discover the the right node and container ID, SSH into it and run `docker exec` there - no remote access.)