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0 pointseropple8y ago0 comments

1) Principle is what matters. This behavior is utterly and completely indefensible; screwing with people's private code for your whatever-nobody-cares startup is absolutely unacceptable at any level. I don't care how big your Series A round was or who your investors are, you just don't do it and you don't hide it and you don't lie about "forgetting" about it (and it should be considered a lie until proven otherwise because after the last couple weeks Adam Smith could fit in some Baghdad Bob photoshops).

2) Collecting non-bundled package names is another way to phrase "exfiltrating competitors' upcoming products." That by itself is sufficient evidence for me to want some heads.

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sillysaurus38y ago· 2 in thread

Collecting file extensions bucketed by time plus a list of installed package names is spying on you?

I doubt they even thought of the competitor angle. I wouldn't have. Startups don't win by worrying what every new company is doing.

It wasn't a smart decision, but you're acting like they are uploading your entire source code tree. (I think someone even claimed that they were doing this at one point but was later shown to be mistaken.)

eroppleOP8y ago

Man--I like you and I think you are a pretty awesome poster, so I'd like to go through an experiment with you. Upload the filenames of everything you've put through your editor in the last nine months. Pastebin it for me right now (and I say pastebin because I sure have no idea how secure Kite's stuff is so we're gonna be assuming that it's not, yeah?). The request is totally insane, right? Even beyond the pure principle of it, if you did that for half a dozen developers we'll find something you really don't want me to know about, be it business or personal. (Ever use, say, org-mode or vimwiki?)

I'm willing to be strident because heads on pikes are how you ensure this is not repeated in an amplified way. Kite might be dopey, stupid, careless, and mean instead of actively malicious. Doesn't matter. The next one will be if clear lines are not drawn.

sillysaurus38y ago

Your posts are pretty good too! I completely agree that collecting filenames would be a blatant breach of trust. If they were doing that, I'd be the first one labeling the company as evil. But my hangup is that they didn't actually do that, and what they did do seems benign.

The thing is, market forces are pretty good at settling these issues. It's an open-source plugin, so everyone can see what they're doing. If they start being naughty, people can uninstall and switch to something else. But why are we punishing them before they did anything serious, along with locking down the ability of anyone else to ever collect any kind of usage data about their plugins? Even something harmless like "time spent trying to figure out the options screen"?

I hope it doesn't seem like I'm trying to defend spyware here. Collecting metrics about your product is the first step toward improving it. The motive seems like a positive one, not a negative greedy one.

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